Corona Virus... the second wave

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idleprocess

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See if you can drive to an adjacent state. Dad drove from AL to FL for his, only 38 miles though.

Near-adjacent states seem to be in a similar spot WRT progressing past phase 1. Most states' Phase 2 includes critical infrastructure employees alongside other non-healthcare/non-first responder essential workers thus I expect that's when I'll be able to schedule a vaccination.
 

bigburly912

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I fear that those who are reluctant to get it will look at the recipients who feel sick-ish for a day or two afterwards and think that they got the 'Rona from the vaccination and will be even more reluctant to take it themselves. This will be an uphill battle for those people.

What about those that are reluctant to get it seeing congressman who have had both doses catching it?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/stephen-lynch-covid-19-positive-vaccine/
 

turbodog

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I can't pull enough detail from the timeline...

Homeboy could have been exposed after dose1, gotten dose2, then manifested positive. Or he could simply be one of those that slipped through.

And if they are that easily distracted... it just leaves more doses for rational folks.
 

bigburly912

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Don't think logically. You have a bad tendency to do that. Think like an American crowd of people that already think if they get the vaccine they will start crapping out alien hybrid satan demon spawn. They see a high profile person catch it after getting vaccinated. How do they react.
 
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PhotonWrangler

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Those people won't understand or care that the vaccines are 95% effective, not 100%. Also those reinfected people might have caught one of the variants for which the vaccine might be less than 95% effective. Or they didn't get their second shot early enough. And some percentage of those people probably caught the seasonal flu and didn't get tested to rule out Covid-19. So many valid ways to explain this.
 

jtr1962

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The best messaging to get out to people is that vaccines aren't a panacea. Maybe we can use the fact some people who got vaccinated still caught covid to our advantage. We need to stress mask wearing, social distancing, and more importantly not going out unless you absolutely have to. By doing all these things, we reduce the spread of the virus, the chance of further mutations, and we give the vaccine a chance to achieve herd immunity. If we play our cards right, while vaccinating 250 to 300 million people by summer, we might be mostly out of this thing by fall. If variants resurface, we can give booster shots before they have a chance to spread. If we go on like we're doing, with many reluctant to get vaccinated, we might not get out of this at all. Hundreds of thousands of annual covid deaths could be the new normal, along with permanent mask requirements, and the end to public venues like stadiums. That's the bleak future which awaits us if we don't start taking this more seriously.
 

turbodog

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... If variants resurface...

Given the inevitability of mutations, people's lack of proper action, and constraints/logistics this thing will never go away. That said, mutations push towards less lethal... this has already happened with many pathogens.

Things will improve eventually. Short term: vaccines + recovered more or less gives herd immunity. Long term: mutations will weaken it while making it more infectious... which will tend to further weaken it, and so on.

Covid's real damage was revealing those you *thought* to be smart/caring for the person they truly were. Things will never be the same.
 
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jtr1962

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Covid's real damage was revealing those you *thought* to be smart/caring for the person they truly were. Things will never be the same.
Sad but true. I've heard of people who are no longer on speaking terms on account of everything that's happened during the last year.

My thoughts on the virus long term are similar to yours. The common cold probably started out as something this lethal, then eventually mutated into something which is more an annoyance than a danger.
 

raggie33

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how safe is grocery shoping now? i wear them cheap mask i forgot there name but they come in 50 packs. i need deprestly to get food. i no longer can afford shoping online .is it safe to go if i clean hands before i enter store and after?
 

jtr1962

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how safe is grocery shoping now? i wear them cheap mask i forgot there name but they come in 50 packs. i need deprestly to get food. i no longer can afford shoping online .is it safe to go if i clean hands before i enter store and after?
Here's what I do:

1) I bring a shopping cart so I can get as much as possible, versus hand carrying the bags home.
2) I only go to the store about every other week.
3) I go about 30 minutes before closing, when the store is nearly empty.
4) I'm in and out in probably 20 minutes, 30 tops.
5) I wash down everything which comes in bottles, cans, and plastic bags.
6) For stuff which comes in cardboard boxes, there's usually a plastic bag with the stuff inside the cardboard box. So I throw the box out, and wash down the plastic bag.
7) The few things which can't easily be washed down, like stuff in cardboard boxes with no inner bag, I wipe down with paper towels and alcohol.
8) I wash my clothes and take a shower when I'm done.

All of the above isn't as time-consuming as it sounds. In general, it takes me two hours from the time I leave for the store until I'm done with my shower.

I've long been in the habit of washing cans and bottles even pre-pandemic. Grocery stores aren't the cleanest places going. So really, this isn't that much extra effort above and beyond what I've done for years. Probably a good idea getting rid of the cardboard boxes for most things right away as roaches are known to hide in them. As you probably know, NYC is the cockroach (and rat) capital of the world.
 
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nbp

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Experts have stated that most of that washing and disinfecting is not really necessary. The airborne particles are vastly more likely to be the vector of infection. The first couple points about going less frequently and going when the store is most likely near empty are by far the most effective things you can do. Even then, walking past someone for 2 seconds doesn't seem to be especially hazardous as is evidenced by the updated definitions of "exposure" the CDC has been using lately.

This past week my grandma tested positive for C19. She apparently was feeling a little off for a couple days then last Monday she spiked a fever and felt quite ill. Tuesday my mom took her to the doctor where they gave her a C19 test, and did a chest X-Ray since she had some crackling in her lungs. Due to her age and health issues I have felt this past year that if she got it she would probably die. Amazingly the X-Ray did not show pneumonia, but she did test COVID positive. They sent her home and set her up with an appointment on Thursday for an IV Infusion of bamlanivimab, which is a monoclonal antibody treatment. It is not FDA approved but like the ones from Regeneron it was granted an emergency use authorization for those who qualify for it. She went in for a couple of hours on Thursday to get that treatment, and by Saturday was feeling significantly better. So far so good - she might womp this thing significantly better than I ever expected!

Mom told me though that even after she tested positive and told the other old timers she had seen in her senior living apartment about it, they seemed to carry on as normal. To my knowledge they did not arrange to get tested and are not quarantining. So, as we have mentioned many times since this started, you can make all the rules and mandates you want at all levels of government, but basically they all rely on people doing what they need to do to protect themselves. In my experience even many high risk people do not do much to protect themselves, so what are you gonna do? If people say Oh if only the government did this or that we would have almost no deaths.... I don't totally believe that. They could have been reduced, certainly, but barring fines or arrests people will largely do what they want. Plus, I believe some 150k of the deaths were in long term care facilities, which are already the most locked down protected places they could be. It isn't as if those people are hanging out at bars and parties, so I wonder if a lot of those deaths were going to happen no matter what was done. The challenge is we have a fantastically large population of high risk people in this country. Some 50 million people over 65 yrs, and tens of millions with diabetes, heart disease and more. It's really hard to protect such a huge quantity of elderly and sickly people.
 

Tejasandre

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Getting my parents & my vaccination #1 tomorrow. San Antonio Texas. 800 calls over 2 days to the hotline & 56 minutes on hold when I finally got through. Moderns is what they have.
 

raggie33

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walmart is by far the worse some reason i see most of the unmaskers there .
 

jtr1962

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Experts have stated that most of that washing and disinfecting is not really necessary.
Keep in mind I was already doing a lot of this pre-pandemic because containers and such are often visibly dirty. Even if it's not of much help protecting against covid, it protects against other possible pathogens.

The airborne particles are vastly more likely to be the vector of infection. The first couple points about going less frequently and going when the store is most likely near empty are by far the most effective things you can do. Even then, walking past someone for 2 seconds doesn't seem to be especially hazardous as is evidenced by the updated definitions of "exposure" the CDC has been using lately.
I don't freak out if someone is near me for a few seconds. I just hold me breath until I'm away from them. If everyone's wearing masks, that's already very helpful.

This past week my grandma tested positive for C19. She apparently was feeling a little off for a couple days then last Monday she spiked a fever and felt quite ill. Tuesday my mom took her to the doctor where they gave her a C19 test, and did a chest X-Ray since she had some crackling in her lungs. Due to her age and health issues I have felt this past year that if she got it she would probably die. Amazingly the X-Ray did not show pneumonia, but she did test COVID positive. They sent her home and set her up with an appointment on Thursday for an IV Infusion of bamlanivimab, which is a monoclonal antibody treatment. It is not FDA approved but like the ones from Regeneron it was granted an emergency use authorization for those who qualify for it. She went in for a couple of hours on Thursday to get that treatment, and by Saturday was feeling significantly better. So far so good - she might womp this thing significantly better than I ever expected!
Some people do a lot better than others. I know type O negative blood, which I have, confers some advantage. So does the amount of virus you're exposed to. Those exposed to large amounts of virus tend to get sicker.

Mom told me though that even after she tested positive and told the other old timers she had seen in her senior living apartment about it, they seemed to carry on as normal. To my knowledge they did not arrange to get tested and are not quarantining. So, as we have mentioned many times since this started, you can make all the rules and mandates you want at all levels of government, but basically they all rely on people doing what they need to do to protect themselves. In my experience even many high risk people do not do much to protect themselves, so what are you gonna do? If people say Oh if only the government did this or that we would have almost no deaths.... I don't totally believe that. They could have been reduced, certainly, but barring fines or arrests people will largely do what they want. Plus, I believe some 150k of the deaths were in long term care facilities, which are already the most locked down protected places they could be. It isn't as if those people are hanging out at bars and parties, so I wonder if a lot of those deaths were going to happen no matter what was done. The challenge is we have a fantastically large population of high risk people in this country. Some 50 million people over 65 yrs, and tens of millions with diabetes, heart disease and more. It's really hard to protect such a huge quantity of elderly and sickly people.
The one area where government could have been most effective is preventing the disease from even entering the country in large numbers. Australia and New Zealand successfully did this. So did many Asian countries. If the number of cases is small, testing and contact tracing can prevent major community spread. So a system of travel bans (starting in late December/early January), with testing and contact tracing available as soon as possible, would probably have mostly kept the virus out. Once the virus entered in large quantities, sure, thousands of deaths were probably inevitable regardless.

Another point to remember is our system of 50 state governments each doing their own thing works against us. In the EU you had a similar situation of each country doing their own thing. China, to their credit, effectively controlled it after the first major outbreak, although I'm skeptical their death toll was only in the 4,000s. Probably 10 to 20 times that number but still remarkable given their population. Their response was more successful because of their system of government. Now I'm not suggesting we emulate that across the board, but I think a top-down system for major health emergencies would be something to consider going forward. In other words, if people like Fauci determine we're in a pandemic, they decide what measures are needed, and their word is law across all 50 states until the emergency passes. That might actually not be a hard sell. It gets local politicians off the hook. It also allows much more rapid, uniform response. Sure, in the end voluntary compliance is still part of it, even in places with authoritarian governments like China. But if the messaging is uniform, it's a lot easier to get people to comply. Imagine if there had been no controversy about masks or other facets of the pandemic? We might still have five figures of deaths, but that's better than being well on the way to half a million.
 
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Poppy

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Here's what I do:

1) I bring a shopping cart so I can get as much as possible, versus hand carrying the bags home.
2) I only go to the store about every other week.
3) I go about 30 minutes before closing, when the store is nearly empty.
4) I'm in and out in probably 20 minutes, 30 tops.
5) I wash down everything which comes in bottles, cans, and plastic bags.
6) For stuff which comes in cardboard boxes, there's usually a plastic bag with the stuff inside the cardboard box. So I throw the box out, and wash down the plastic bag.
7) The few things which can't easily be washed down, like stuff in cardboard boxes with no inner bag, I wipe down with paper towels and alcohol.
8) I wash my clothes and take a shower when I'm done.

All of the above isn't as time-consuming as it sounds. In general, it takes me two hours from the time I leave for the store until I'm done with my shower.

I've long been in the habit of washing cans and bottles even pre-pandemic. Grocery stores aren't the cleanest places going. So really, this isn't that much extra effort above and beyond what I've done for years. Probably a good idea getting rid of the cardboard boxes for most things right away as roaches are known to hide in them. As you probably know, NYC is the cockroach (and rat) capital of the world.
Initially, I followed the same technique, and kept at it for a number of months, there were some variances though.

Considering that we were told that the virus became unstable while resting on most surfaces, within 24 hours, I often left non-perishables in the trunk of my car overnight before bringing them in. I still often do that. Not so much, now that we have freezing temps outside.

We used a sterile technique, where we cleaned the table. Then put everything either on the floor or the left hand side of the table, after cleaning it got moved to the right side of the table.

In my area, stores still offer "Senior hours". Generally the store is less occupied during them (first thing in the morning). Also any airborne virii may be more than 24 hours old, and inactive, more so than those later in the evening.

I typically wear a surgical mask. It is hard to believe that it is effective. I can walk down the soap isle and smell, all the soaps, or near the flower section, and smell the roses. Yet if I wear my half face respirator... I smell NOTHING!

If things get worse around here, or I become more concerned, I'll wear the respirator. If I have to put a filter over the exhaust valve, that's not a biggie.

Back to raggie.
I was in the home depot last week and they had a couple of half face respirators in stock, and a few replacement filter cartridges in stock.

I believe they are significantly better than what you are wearing.
 

turbodog

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...
3) I go about 30 minutes before closing, when the store is nearly empty.
...

Why go after people have breathed in there all day long? Go when the doors open. C-19 appears to be quite hard to transmit via surface contamination. If it were... I would probably have it already... being in IT... I touch keyboards, desktops, and mice all day long.
 

jtr1962

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Why go after people have breathed in there all day long? Go when the doors open. C-19 appears to be quite hard to transmit via surface contamination. If it were... I would probably have it already... being in IT... I touch keyboards, desktops, and mice all day long.
Because I'm not a morning person. It was hard enough for me to get up early when I was being paid for it. Even then, I hated it. Besides, I'm not sure the store is necessarily empty early AM. I do know that peak times seem to be between 3PM and 6PM. After that, it tapers off a lot. By the time I get there around 8:15, the store has already had a lot fewer customers for probably close to 2 hours.
 

KITROBASKIN

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They sent her home and set her up with an appointment on Thursday for an IV Infusion of bamlanivimab, which is a monoclonal antibody treatment. It is not FDA approved but like the ones from Regeneron it was granted an emergency use authorization for those who qualify for it. She went in for a couple of hours on Thursday to get that treatment, and by Saturday was feeling significantly better. So far so good - she might womp this thing significantly better than I ever expected!

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-antibody-eli-lilly-phase3-data/
 
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