Cree LR6 vs. CR6 including color temp?

[Coyote302]

We are looking at putting in LED cans for the entire house during our remodel. I've looked at both the Cree LR6 and CR6. From the spec sheet I see that the CR6 can be dimmed to 5% vs. 20% for the LR6. They both have CRI=90. The LR6 has a little more output at 650 lumens vs. 575 for the CR6. The only other significant difference I see is that the LR6 is available in 3500 K in addition to the 2700 K the CR6 comes in.

I'm looking for thoughts regarding that color temp. difference for home lighting. I think that I've gotten used to cooler than 2700 K lighting using various CFLs and I know that I like a more neutral temp for flashlights (3500 K-5000 K). Also, the more I've gotten into photography the more that I've noticed the effect of very warm lighting and the need for color balancing. It seems to to me the 3500 K would be desireable but maybe not for "normal" home use where people are probably still used to warm incans. The warmer color temp may also be desirable from a circadian rhythm view. Are there any places in the house (kitchen for example) that anyone would recommend going to the 3500 K over the 2700 K? Or am just overthinking this and should just go with the newer and less expensive CR6 and be done with it?

Any other thoughts on the LR6 vs. CR6 are welcome as well of course.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

 

[Coyote302]

Forgot to mention that I'm also looking for thoughts on Edison Base vs. GU24 Base. Thanks, Rich

 

[LEDninja]

I find that in the kitchen something cooler than warm white allows me to see more clearly. I currently have one cool white (400 lm 5000°K nominal) and one warm white (450 lm 3000°K nominal) Zetalux. The cool by itself is too paper white, the warm too yellow.
(The cheaper bulbs tend to vary quite a bit in tint from the nominal catalog values so I do not know what they actually are.)

3500°K is the indoor film / movie studio lights are standardized on. It is still an incandescent tint, not neutral.

Maybe you should buy 1 2700°K and 1 3500°K bulb to test. Its $200 but they will eventually end up in your ceiling, so not wasted. After all it is your and your family's eyes that have to put up with the selection not mine.

I thought if you are in California GU-24 is required by law. Outside California E26 is still more common followed by GU10 and MR16 (24V).

GU-24 is only allowed on products that meet Energy Star requirements. This means that you won't get inefficient bulbs or bulbs that last 6 months. LED bulbs vary a lot in efficiency. This is a moot point since you have narrowed your search to Cree products.

 

[Coyote302]

Thanks LEDninja. Your comment regarding the kitchen is exactly what I was looking for. I had forgotten but you are right about the GU-24 requirement for lights here in California (at least in the kitchen I think). I suppose I could buy all the housings (for the electrician to install), a few of the CR6s and a couple LR6s in 3500 K to compare and then decide what to do. It looks like Polar-Ray has free shipping so separate orders aren't a big deal. Thanks again.

 

[purduephotog]

Forgot to mention that I'm also looking for thoughts on Edison Base vs. GU24 Base. Thanks, Rich

I purchased the DR-1000 units for my daughter's room- they were 120$ a piece- almost 40$ more than the LR6 (assume polar ray). I installed CR6 units in my son's room because of cost constraints.

Daughter's room is 12x12 (effectively), and 4 units produce TOO much light. I like it, but it is very very bright. We typically run them at 25% for most purposes and have plenty.

There is flicker with them... but they are very effective at what they do.

That said, if you go with the 3500K units you could mix/match some lower wattage LR6 units for general lighting, but for places like over the sink/stove area you could put in a DR1000.

I think the color and rendering of colors when the units are on full are great at 3500k and would much prefer that in my kitchen (I currently have 3000K LED units with 80CRI, as opposed to the higher color DR1000).

Good luck.

 

[Potato42]

If I'm understanding correctly, you are noticing a shift in perceived color temperature when dimming the lights? You also mention flicker with the DR-1000, do you have any flicker with the others? That's one thing that drives me crazy about modern PWM lighting.

3500°K is the indoor film / movie studio lights are standardized on. It is still an incandescent tint, not neutral.

Just a quick FYI - 3200K (Indoors) is actually the standard for film photography, both still and motion pictures (5500K for daylight). Things are changing quite a bit these days though, with CCT (Correlated Color Temperature) becoming so popular, as well as CRI values. Of course with fluorescent's and LED's gaining popularity for film and photography, it's becoming harder to gauge the quality of light from the same simple numbers as before. In any case film stock is still sold as 3200K for "indoor" and quartz lights for filmmaking are balanced to 3200K as well.

 

[purduephotog]

When dimmed down to 25% I can see flicker when I flick my eye side-to-side. I can see flicker at 75% as well- but with this particular dimmer.

With the CR6 units the dimmer they had running them at HD I could not see any flicker all the way down to 1% (which they are NOT supposed to be able to go to).

That said, I'm still looking for a good dimmer for the units. Do not count the flicker against them. See my teardown thread on the DR1000.

(I do not see any colour shift with the lights while dimming).

 

[asimba2]

I went through the same dilemma as I was preparing to update the lighting in my home. I assumed the 2700K CR6s would be too warm for me so I bought one CR6 to sample in my entryway. It does not look yellow, weird or undesireable in any way, it simply looks 'normal' to me.

When I did my recent kitchen lighting upgrade I chose the CR6s because I liked the results from the one I installed earlier and I have seen several articles that say kitchens and food look better at lower color temperatures, so I went for it. I couldn't be happier. I have a dozen CR6s spread through my house now and there's no way I would pay extra to have something different. You probably saw my pics in my other thread, but will post them here as well.

hallway:

Take a look at the amazing reviews of the CR6 on the homedepot website as well.

This is not totally relevant to our discussion, but I have been messing around with different color temperatures for an eave lighting project. I'm finding that 5000K is fine for a garage but it's too cold for my liking inside and it even makes the exterior feel less inviting and a little too industrial. Here's about 4200K (left) versus about 3000K (right).

What you are seeing in the last pic is my portapower on a ladder running some test rigs to evaluate color temperature and light spill.

 

[Potato42]

Thanks for the follow up perdue. Excellent comparison and pictures asimba!

 

[Coyote302]

Thanks for comments and pictures asimba2. Nice job with those kithcen lights. This makes me less worried about the warm tints. My current plan is to get a few CR6s, and at least 1 LR6 in 2700 K and 3500 K to compare. I figure that I'll be able to find a good place to them somewhere. I'm thinking that the extra output of the LR6 might be helpful in the kitchen (warm or not) but I'm not sure yet. The existing house had very bad lighting with much of it temporarily rigged desk lamps and such so it's hard to gauge what will be needed or at least desired. Thanks again, Rich

 

[blasterman]

I've recently worked with some CR6's recently and my experience matches above. No flicker, and seamless, warm light akin to halogen that isn't artificial in anyway.

I tend to prefer warmer color temps in the evening when I want to settle down and relax or dine. 3500k is easier to work under, and seems more natural during the day.

 

[jginnane]

Thanks for comments and pictures asimba2. Nice job with those kithcen lights. This makes me less worried about the warm tints...

Hi Rich,

I went through this a year ago, putting 4 LR6C (the 3500-degree) in our kitchen. Looks terrific. Then I put 3 LR6es (2700 degree) in one bathroom, and couldn't be happier.

Now I'm considering the other bathroom, the "makeup" bathroom, and am thinking LR6-DR1000s in 2700 color. This fixture comes with a GU-24 base only and clear instructions on how to retrofit our existing Edison sockets.

All these rooms had Lutron dimmers from our previous halogens, and we find the Cree color simply looks a lot better at full (well, 90%, because the dimmer takes ~10%) power. If you're doing a new installation, put in a simple on/off switch until you're convinced you want dimmers.

The kitchen lighting at 3500 is not "stark", but clearly different from the comfort rooms. I think you probably want the most accurate light in a kichen anyways ... at 2700, even these Crees seem to merge items of a pink/orange/yellow/red hue (but nowhere near as bad as halogens). The cooler light, closer to daylight, will make fresh food better looking.

 

[Coyote302]

What spacing have you guys used between lights? I've started a layout using 4 ft to 5 ft spacing with the lights 24"-30" away from the walls. With that spacing, the count really starts to add up. Is is safe to spread them out to something like 6 ft in general use areas? Any thoughts, experiences, ideas are once again welcome. Thanks.

 

[purduephotog]

What spacing have you guys used between lights? I've started a layout using 4 ft to 5 ft spacing with the lights 24"-30" away from the walls. With that spacing, the count really starts to add up. Is is safe to spread them out to something like 6 ft in general use areas? Any thoughts, experiences, ideas are once again welcome. Thanks.

The recommended spacing comes from how much light you want to throw on the surfaces. I used a modeling app to come up with 50fc at the floor- unfortunately it said I needed around 16 lights or so. Since I only wanted to put 6 in, I dropped the spec down to about 10 fc on the floor.

that said, my one room is 9' wide and I have 2 lights spaced across it, and 16' long- for 3 lights across that dimension.

It is enough light on full, but I really wouldn't have minded adding an additional pair of cans.

There are simulators that will let you put in the room dimensions and can locations to get lighting values- don't have the link on this laptop.

 

[asimba2]

As you can see in the pictures, my can lights have an unusual spacing due to the pitch of my ceiling. I started with this:

Fluorescent fixture still in place, I marked the studs (locations where the cans *couldn't go) and the blue crosses mark can locations. Generally, you want light directed at the countertop corners and above work areas like over the kitchen sink. The lights on the far wall (near the clock) are pointed directly at the countertop corners below it. I used a rather unscientific approach of holding an LED flashlight with a tight beam pattern flush against the ceiling until the light was directed where I wanted it, then marked the spot.

The blue cross closest to the camera points light directly over the sink area. The one farthest to the right was placed an equal measured distance from the latter location and over the entryway to the kitchen. This put light in the standard areas you would illuminate in the kitchen. I was worried there would be a lack of light in the center of the kitchen, so I added two more light locations inside the oak framed box and closer together to fill the center of the kitchen. I probably could have used only one in this location but I didn't like the symmetry of five lights.

I have no complaints with the amount or spacing of light, just spend some time thinking about where you need light. Pitched ceilings like mine complicate matters, however because light is coming from two different planes, I notice that when you open a cabinet you have the benefit of light shining *in* the cabinet, as opposed to light from a flat ceiling where it is only shining down.