Decent cheap Gen III scope?

[PocketBeam]

I have a Gen I scope. It is OK, but not very bright.

Cost is a huge issue for me. I just got married, I am still paying for the marriage, and my wife is in school and doesn't work.

So what is the cheapest decent Gen III scope? I have been told I should just skip Gen II. I live in a urban enviroment, so how good is teh over light protection?

Thanks

 

[Frangible]

Actually for urban environments, Gen 2 does pretty well, since msot of the light is skyglow from sodium lamps that G2 is more sensitive to than G3.

The overbright protection is ok, I don't think a momentary bright light will permanently damage the tube, but it will mess up your image.

Anyway. The cheapest decent one is probably the ITT NightQuest 160 which can be had for $1600 or so new, and about $1k used.

 

[PocketBeam]

Thanks Frangible.

I know you have talked here about your scope being better then a flashlight because you can see more and farther. Have you found you use your scope much?

 

[Frangible]

The only real use, aside from playing with it, was to find the dog when she ran off one night (left the garage door open, whoops). Also have used it to check out "bump in the night"s, but nothing's ever come of that.

I've taken it on night time hikes as well, however due to the heavy tree density in where I hike, the range wasn't better than a flashlight really, and a flashlight had a wider FoV, and was color.

On the open parts though, it was cool to look at things from the mountains down into the valley with it, and see faint light sources.

 

[Unicorn]

Gen 3 scopes are more expensive than Gen 2, but they also have something like 3 or more times the lifespan. If it's more an expensive toy, I'd suggest saving up for a Gen3, unless you can find a real chepa Gen2. Gen 2 aren't actually all that bad, just not as nice as Gen3, and they don't last as long. If in a more urban environment with plenty of ambient light, the Gen2 nvg's will be more than satisfactory.

 

[PocketBeam]

Expensive toy it would be. I guess my next "scope" will be the LionHeart by MrBulk.

 

[Frangible]

I don't regret getting one, but given your previously stated financial situation, perhaps waiting would be best for you.

 

[ledy]

PocketBeam, you are in line for a LH and now you want a night vision scope too.... you will be broke for a while yet if you want night vision and an expensive [but nice] custom light!.

 

[PocketBeam]

Broke before I started... At this point I won't be getting a LionHeart as the price went higher then Mr. Bulk orginally guestimated. Gen IIIs are out for a while too.

Maybe after my wife gets out of school and we become two incomes instead of one.

 

[riscfaktor]

I would agree that you should just skip Gen II and go to Gen III. for the price differential you may as well wait and go all out. As for overbright protection, I can only speak for the two models I actually own. My ITT PVS7B have absolutely no problem with overbright and are very well protected. The ATN Patriot III, on the other hand, do not seem as well protected. When looking at an bright object (streetlights, car lamps, IR sources) it will exhibit black "trails" in the image that last for some time. Look at the bright source for too long and I believe you could do damage to the tube.

The PVS7B have been pretty much impervious to anything you can throw at it, but they go for around $2500. Since you've decided to wait for a bit, I'd suggest shop around and possibly pick up a used set from a reputable source. Can't stress reputable enough--stay clear of most of the one's you see on ebay. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[PocketBeam]

$2500, well I will be waiting quite a while.

Looks like the PVS7B would be one to shoot for though.

 

[riscfaktor]

They are really nice, but keep in mind those are goggles, not an scope. Wasn't sure if by scope you mean monocular or not. I just wanted to comment about the difference in the 2 unit's OB protection. The ATN Patriot III is an monocular, and with the right hardware package can be mounted to an rifle for use as an scope.

 

[PocketBeam]

Cost aside, goggles would be better for me. Hmm, doesn't seem fair to hunt dear at night with a night vision scope. Why not just use hand gernades?

Gee for $2500, you are getting close to Thermal...

 

[Frangible]

You can't hunt at night in most states at all. And even if you could, hunting with a low-rez monochrome scope is more difficult than hunting during the day, so I'm not sure where your hand grenade analogy comes from.

Thermal's still quite a bit more, but it depends on what you want to do with it.

BTW, the "best" method of poaching deer at night involves high powered spotlights. The lights will paralyze the deer and the reflective layer in their eyes gives you a very large detection range. I served on a jury, and convicted a man here, for doing that.

 

[riscfaktor]

Bear in mind too that that's for military issue (mil-spec)equipment, which I imagine accounts for some of that price. I had to wait about 6 months to get mine because of the conflict overseas at the time had them backlogged. If you get into monoculars like the PVS14 or 6010, or something like a PVS9 (aviator goggles), you can double that price to about 5k. The intensifier tube makes up the largest portion of the price usually, a PVS7D is essentially the same as a 7B, but has a better tube so more money. I think if you can find someone to demonstrate a Gen III unit for you firsthand, you'll see where that extra money goes compared to your GenI.

 

[riscfaktor]

Just did a bit more reading. Seems the PVS7B incorporates a high light sensor which cuts power to the intesifier tube in bright conditions. This would account for its superior protection.

You can read about it here:
http://www.nait.com/pvs_7b.htm

Do a lot of research and don't be fooled by low prices, as the 7B is also available with a 2nd Gen. tube. Most devices do have different tube options for the same device, so read carefully before you compare.

 

[Unicorn]

The ones with the Gen 2 tube are actually the 7A model. When I first joined the Army, we were still using hte 7A,s and the even older (still 2nd gen) AN/PVS 5's. When I first used the 7B's I was amazed at the clarity compared to the 7A's. The 7D's and AN/PVS 14's I use now aren't as dramatically better. Maybe a little clearer, and maybe a bitl onger lasting, but not the big difference between 2nd and 3rd generations.

 

[riscfaktor]

I think the main difference of the higher Gen II is the resolution -- 64 lp/mm vs. 51 lp/mm. I couldn't justify the increased cost for the, as you said, slight improvement. My ATN unit has a select Gen3+ tube and has a little better image. Mainly it is a bit clearer and has less of the small black dots normally present in NVG.

Is the military outfitting your units with the different wavelength IR illuminators to avoid detection yet? Or do you have a certain protocols as to when you can and can't use the illuminators?

 

[Doug3581]

Right now OpticsPlanet is showing a US Night Vision gen-3 monocular named the "Falcon" for ~$2200 that is the body of the USNV D121 and D121-M (gen-2) (~$1200 and $1800) but obviously with a gen-3 tube. I would ask on the "other" night-vision forum about the details before ordering, my assumption would be that this would NOT be a "grade-A" gen-3 tube. The price difference between gen-2 and 3 should be way more than $400, I am thinking. USNV does not list the Falcon on their own website that I can see...?
----
I have messed with a few gen-1's, wanted a gen-2 but have not as yet done it--but from what I have seen, a grade-A gen-2 starts at around $1800 (the 121-M) and a grade-A gen-3 is about $1000 more than that.
~

 

[Unicorn]

I've almost never acutally used the built in illuminator, except to play around with them to see how well they worked. Maybe once or twice to see if I could read a map, and check the guarges on my track. I've never even used the IR lights on my 113 when I was a driver. We either used just the blackout lights, or just the NVG's.