Defense Light output minimum?
- Thread starter lureman
- Start date
cratz2
Flashlight Enthusiast
Minimum? I guess 60. That seems to be Surefire's 'minimum'.
I've never really bought into the 'stunning the attacker' scenario. I think you'd be a lot more likely to stun someone that was truly lost rather than someone intent on causing you harm. On the other hand, I guess any advantage you can obtain is a good thing.
My advice - as a fellow Hoosier - is my minimum light is the one on the light rail of a CZ, SIG or XD.
I've never really bought into the 'stunning the attacker' scenario. I think you'd be a lot more likely to stun someone that was truly lost rather than someone intent on causing you harm. On the other hand, I guess any advantage you can obtain is a good thing.
My advice - as a fellow Hoosier - is my minimum light is the one on the light rail of a CZ, SIG or XD.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
when i go around at night, i don't leave without at least 120 in my 6p, usually 200 in my 9P, and once a while with my mag with 800. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
60 Lumens seems to be the minimum... However, the likelyhood of you ending up in a situation where a flashlight could save you in a "defensive" manner is nearly nonexistant. And even in that event, you must posses the proper skills obtained through training to effectively and successfully defend yourself.
The best thing to do is keep your eyes peeled, be aware of your surroundings and learn to detect potential trouble and avoid it. If you're not there, it can't happen to you!
The best thing to do is keep your eyes peeled, be aware of your surroundings and learn to detect potential trouble and avoid it. If you're not there, it can't happen to you!
HEK_Hamburg
Newly Enlightened
The shooting instructors over here said, at least 50 Lumens.
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Regardless of the brightness of the light, I think it is also dependent on the ambience lighting condition. Like an SF M6 cannot even flinch you on a bright summer Sunday noon at the beach right? In contrast, in a pitch dark jungle, a 60 lumens is good enuf to blank you 4 a while...:)
I gave a piece of street trash 120 Lumens , his first move was to cover his eyes , his second move was to beg me to turn it off ! That would have bought me enuff time to kick,punch,cut ,clud or shoot the so and so should it have proved nescessary . This was in dark urban conditions , probably with a subject with a dark adapted eyes . Had this creep partaken of some street pharmaceuticals , that might have dilated his pupils still further .
I've used my Strion (100 lumens) to blind my friends at night in ambient city lighting from across the street. It's not dazing and confusing to a large extent under those conditions, but they were unable to see me while the light was on their eyes.
At closer ranges typical with a confontation (0-10ft) it has very effective results in city night conditions, and even in indoor daylight it's got some punch. In a dark alley it would do wonders.
It's important to not rely on a flashlight to save your life, although it could have a slight contribution.
Investing in urban self defense training is your best bet.
At closer ranges typical with a confontation (0-10ft) it has very effective results in city night conditions, and even in indoor daylight it's got some punch. In a dark alley it would do wonders.
It's important to not rely on a flashlight to save your life, although it could have a slight contribution.
Investing in urban self defense training is your best bet.
Ratso
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
cdf said:
I gave a piece of street trash 120 Lumens , his first move was to cover his eyes , his second move was to beg me to turn it off ! That would have bought me enuff time to kick,punch,cut ,clud or shoot the so and so should it have proved nescessary . This was in dark urban conditions , probably with a subject with a dark adapted eyes . Had this creep partaken of some street pharmaceuticals , that might have dilated his pupils still further .
[/ QUOTE ]
Was this in self defense, or just out of curiousity/fun??
cdf said:
I gave a piece of street trash 120 Lumens , his first move was to cover his eyes , his second move was to beg me to turn it off ! That would have bought me enuff time to kick,punch,cut ,clud or shoot the so and so should it have proved nescessary . This was in dark urban conditions , probably with a subject with a dark adapted eyes . Had this creep partaken of some street pharmaceuticals , that might have dilated his pupils still further .
[/ QUOTE ]
Was this in self defense, or just out of curiousity/fun??
oklalawman
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 235
As much as possible and the more the better!!!
I know the 90 lumens that my streamlight m6 is pretty good
but it is no where as blinding as the TL3 I have mounted to my M4. All that said the luxeon led lights appear to have more of a blinding disorientatin effect. I have seen the SF
led weapon light and it is impressive for this. I might even have to spring for one when they come out with the 5 watt version. I have a pelican m6 led and a regular M6. It is astonishing the difference it is. The led appears a lot brighter to the human eye. This probably has more to do with the wavelenth of the light as the led is closer to a blue light and the incadescent is a warmer red light. At close range I think for blinding the led has the edge.
I know the 90 lumens that my streamlight m6 is pretty good
but it is no where as blinding as the TL3 I have mounted to my M4. All that said the luxeon led lights appear to have more of a blinding disorientatin effect. I have seen the SF
led weapon light and it is impressive for this. I might even have to spring for one when they come out with the 5 watt version. I have a pelican m6 led and a regular M6. It is astonishing the difference it is. The led appears a lot brighter to the human eye. This probably has more to do with the wavelenth of the light as the led is closer to a blue light and the incadescent is a warmer red light. At close range I think for blinding the led has the edge.
[ QUOTE ]
oklalawman said:
As much as possible and the more the better!!!
I know the 90 lumens that my sure fire m6 is pretty good
but it is no where as blinding as the TL3 I have mounted to my M4. All that said the luxeon led lights appear to have more of a blinding disorientatin effect. I have seen the SF
led weapon light and it is impressive for this. I might even have to spring for one when they come out with the 5 watt version. I have a pelican m6 led and a regular M6. It is astonishing the difference it is. The led appears a lot brighter to the human eye. This probably has more to do with the wavelenth of the light as the led is closer to a blue light and the incadescent is a warmer red light. At close range I think for blinding the led has the edge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to disagree... although LEDs sometimes appear brghter due to their color, they are really a lot less bright than the incans.
Try this with your PM6's... Shine the LED in one eye and the incan. in the other, and see how soon the "rings" in your eyes you see dissapear. I bet you the LED eye will recover twice as fast.
I've tried this myself, and can promise you that the more the lux, the more the blinding effect. Incan. or LED does not make much of a difference.
oklalawman said:
As much as possible and the more the better!!!
I know the 90 lumens that my sure fire m6 is pretty good
but it is no where as blinding as the TL3 I have mounted to my M4. All that said the luxeon led lights appear to have more of a blinding disorientatin effect. I have seen the SF
led weapon light and it is impressive for this. I might even have to spring for one when they come out with the 5 watt version. I have a pelican m6 led and a regular M6. It is astonishing the difference it is. The led appears a lot brighter to the human eye. This probably has more to do with the wavelenth of the light as the led is closer to a blue light and the incadescent is a warmer red light. At close range I think for blinding the led has the edge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to disagree... although LEDs sometimes appear brghter due to their color, they are really a lot less bright than the incans.
Try this with your PM6's... Shine the LED in one eye and the incan. in the other, and see how soon the "rings" in your eyes you see dissapear. I bet you the LED eye will recover twice as fast.
I've tried this myself, and can promise you that the more the lux, the more the blinding effect. Incan. or LED does not make much of a difference.
oklalawman
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 235
I will have to try that. Tonight we were doing a felony warrant on a rape suspect. One tried to go out the back door
and he was light up by me with my Stinger HP and the the other officer's Surefire led weaponlight. The subject just kept going off about that he could not beleive how much light came out of that little light. He said he though is was a spotlight. He said he thought it was a lot brighter than my HP stinger (which was freshly charged). .
and he was light up by me with my Stinger HP and the the other officer's Surefire led weaponlight. The subject just kept going off about that he could not beleive how much light came out of that little light. He said he though is was a spotlight. He said he thought it was a lot brighter than my HP stinger (which was freshly charged). .
NewBie
*Retired*
It depends alot on the ambient lighting levels.
In a well lit city, such as downtown, I don't find 90 lumens blinding, just annoying.
That said, it also depends on the reflector, and what they do with that 90 lumens. If it is all focused into the face, it has a stronger effect. The drawback is that it is easier for them to move out of the beam. But, all you need is an initial direct hit in the eyeballs.
Where out in the countryside, 60 lumens on a moonless night is quite dazzling, and the unfortunate soul, walks around dazzled for some time.
In a well lit city, such as downtown, I don't find 90 lumens blinding, just annoying.
That said, it also depends on the reflector, and what they do with that 90 lumens. If it is all focused into the face, it has a stronger effect. The drawback is that it is easier for them to move out of the beam. But, all you need is an initial direct hit in the eyeballs.
Where out in the countryside, 60 lumens on a moonless night is quite dazzling, and the unfortunate soul, walks around dazzled for some time.
