Easy to put together thrower

[gcbryan]

I've got a XR-E R2 drop-in coming that should be here any day (today hopefully).

I ordered it as an after thought. I burned up a XP-G R5 in a P60 host. I've ordered a completely new light to replace that so I have an extra host to play around with and so the R2 drop-in goes in that.

I'm going to do one of three things and just for fun I'd like to get anyone,who's interested to play along, to comment on which of these three things will result in the better looking/more useful beam.

This light will just be for situations calling for more throw. I'll be using the XP-G for other situations.

The three options are a) use the drop-in (XR-E R2) as is with the smooth reflector, b) replace the front lens with a aspheric lens (cheap DX $2.00 lens) and spray the reflector with matte black paint, or c) replace the reflector with a DX TIR type lens (they call them diffuser optics but they're not).

I have an extra XP-G reflector, so painting one black isn't a big deal since I can always return everything back to the way it was, I also already have the DX aspheric lens and some of the TIR optics.

Which solution is ultimately going to work out the best?

At this point I'm not sure if the aspheric that would be replacing the front glass lens is going to be at the exact focal point of the aspherics...that's one unknown.

I don't know if spraying the reflector black is going to be the same as not having a reflector (that's my hope). It needs to be in there just as a spacer. It could have a negative effect on the beam quality even when painted black.

I don't know if using the smooth reflector option will throw substantially further than the TIR optic will throw.

I don't know how ugly the beam will be with the aspheric.

I do know in general that using the snap on TIR optic results in a slightly better beam than just using a standard OP reflector. The TIR has a small collimating lens over the emitter so the hotspot is a little brighter and the spill is less bright and the outer edge of the spill isn't as hard (which is a good thing to me).

I can live with any of the options. This isn't about absolute throw if one throws almost as far the the best throw solution with a much better beam.

Any thoughts as to which of the three solutions will end up as the best solution?

 

[^Gurthang]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Bryan:

Recall The Man Show: "Spin the Wheel of Destiny"......

You may have a winner....

You may have a sumo wrestler set on your face.....

You may just throw the light into a lake after seeing all the results [if you throw it far enough does that qualify as "longest throw"?]

In any case, I will open a beer and await your report of the results.

 

[Sprinkles]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Buy a Jetbeam RRT-2.


Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[XRAYBoY]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

The R2 arrived today.

It's still not as dark as it's going to get and it has started to rain but the R2 is (of course) brighter than the P4, when used with an aspheric it may throw a bit further than with just the reflector but it looks more like the aspheric just cuts off the spill and throws about the same. In other words, the main advantage of the aspheric for throwing may be just that your eye isn't distracted by spill.

When I compared the TIR version (P4) with the reflector version R2 although the R2 was brighter the beam looks better in the TIR version without that hard edge as the spill goes to dark.

The aspheric version seems a little different than the aspheric version of my flood-to-throw. With that one all I saw at a distance was the emitter shape.

With this one I see the focused shape of the emitter and a round hotspot so it that since it's more useful as it puts more like on the subject.

As it gets darker I'll go out again and determine exactly how far it can throw (visually speaking) and if I decide not to keep it in the the aspheric configuration I'll probably get out the glue and permanently mount the TIR in the place of the reflector for a better looking beam.

Again, no artifacts with the reflector. I just like the softer edge of the spill with the TIR. When you move the light around while throwing the beam you aren't distracted by the more localized spill hard edge moving around.

I thought I had one post just before this one. I guess it was "moderated" for just talking about what I was going to do after it got dark instead of containing useful info? Is this level of editing really necessary I wonder?

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Well, at least I'm entertaining myself.

It got darker. I did figure out a way to try out the TIR as well. It's definitely preferable to a regular reflector (with any XR-E IMO). I thought I'd probably end up keeping it that way but I tried the aspheric again now that it's darker and I'll keep the aspheric in.

It's nice to have one light that is like a little spotlight. It would be nice to have an aspheric where there isn't a ring around the hotspot and due to the fact that I have to use a reflector for spacing (even though blackened out) it still has a little spill.

I could modify the light I suppose and not use a reflector at all and maybe use a small pvc tube for spacing but using the P60 drop-in design, since everything is freely floating, I have to use something.

I'll leave it this way it is as an aspheric and experiment a bit with damping out the tiny bit of stray light that is still present.

I didn't really like my DX flood-to-throw light but using this combination as a dedicated thrower is a pretty good combination for the money.

I should point out that the aspheric lens protrudes from the front of the light so of course you can't sit it on it's head. The retaining ring also doesn't screw in as far as it normally would since the glass aspheric from DX has no flange as does the plastic aspheric in the DX flood-to-throw lights. The plastic aspheric doesn't work here though as the focal length isn't right.

I'd be surprised if the Krait or Defender III from Wolf Eyes threw any further than this light as they have similar head diameters which was why I originally got interested in this little experiment.

So for throw in a P60 without a lot of modification I think this is it. This cost me $2.00 for the lens and $9.00 for the XR-E R2 drop-in and whatever you want to figure for the host. I paid $23 for the host with a XP-G R5 emitter (which are $14 on DX separately) so a net of $9. So I guess this light cost me $20. Not bad.

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

As it's gotten as dark as it's going to get in the city I can estimate that it will at least light up something well at 300 ft. There is a big tree that it lights up at that distance. That tree from my back deck is in a line through my backyard through the yard behind me and across the street from that house. That street is well lit from street lights as well.

I'd love for someone with a similar light who lives in a dark rural area to determine exactly how for a light like this can throw.

I made a few changes from earlier tests. I got some black spray paint and sprayed a piece of wood to create a small puddle of paint. Using a small brush I painted the silver lens ring on the emitter and touched up areas on the hole of the reflector. This really cleaned up the beam and eliminated the rings.

This shouldn't cause a heating issue as the heat is all generated from the back of the emitter. I added a little thermal grease between the heat sink and the body of the flashlight and now...I'm done!

 

[^Gurthang]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Thanks for the update, my beer was getting warm & flat.....

glad to hear that your experiments worked well, especially considering the money involved.... gotta love cheap mods that work. Any chance of some beamshots??

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Thanks for the update, my beer was getting warm & flat.....

glad to hear that your experiments worked well, especially considering the money involved.... gotta love cheap mods that work. Any chance of some beamshots??

Nah, I'm too lazy for that! Actually, when I see others do them it doesn't tell me much unless it's a really controled test with several comparison lights at a good location.

If I lived where it was really dark and had several reasonably comparable lights to test at the same time I would.

I did end up rubbing the black paint off the ring around the emitter so the ring of light is back. The problem was that it's very difficult to get paint on the XR-E emitter ring without getting any at all on the lower part of the emitter dome.

When you get paint there it shows up as an artifact so I just rubbed it off for a more consistent looking beam. I still have the reflector painted black of course.

The only beamshots that I've seen where I could really tell something were the series done underground in the Russian utility tunnel posted elsewhere here on CPF.

If I get out somewhere where it's really dark I'll try to take a beamshot and add it to the thread but don't hold your breath!

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

I drove over near a local beach tonight an estimate that the useful throw is probably 400 feet. If used where it's pitch black perhaps a bit more.

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

I keep forgetting is isn't a DIY forum. People here may be more interested in buying rather than making.

I'm thinking about making this light a little nicer by adding a forward clicky. I've ordered a switch that I'm hoping will more or less be a simple drop-in. We'll see how that goes. This time I ordered from the US so it should arrive this week!

 

[aim54x]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

sounds like you built yourself something quite special there.

 

[gcbryan]

I made another little improvement tonight (just in case anyone else is interested in doing the same).

I used some Scotch "Magic" Tape which is used sometimes as a diffuser over the optic. I made a "#" pattern with the area with no tape just over the emitter.

This is easy to do by turning the light on and looking at the projected emitter on the wall.

I then took the optic out and using the pattern of the tape of the front of the optic did the same thing on the bottom. Once that was on I could take the tape off of the front.

I then put the whole thing back together. So now from the outside you can't tell that anything was done. This has removed any artifacts which are common with an cheap aspheric optic. You can still see the outline of the silver ring that is around the emitter but the overall effect is very nice. The ring just serves as the outer limit of light emitted anyway.

If you really wanted to eliminate that line you could just paint it out as I experimented with earlier. The problem then was that you can't help but get just a little paint on the lower based of the emitter dome and it created little artifacts.

Now with the diffuser tape applied I don't think you would see any small artifacts created.

Edit: After trying both a plain optic (no tape), an optic with the tape described above, and an optic with more of the center area exposed I went with the latter. I also took it apart and did paint out the silver ring at the base of the emitter. Now you can't tell I'm using a cheap aspheric. The beam quality is very good. You just see the rectangular shape of the emitter and that's it.

 

[gcbryan]

Just added a forward clicky to this light today. I used those sold for the Romisen lights but it works in this light.

They aren't the same size (smaller) but when you get them positioned correctly then the retaining ring holds them down firmly.

I haven't been able to get them to click while leaving on the existing tail cap rubber button cover so for the time being I just left the cover off. The forward clicky functions perfectly.

With the button on I can use it in momentary mode but can't click it consistently.

I'll figure out how to use the cover next. I'm not sure just what will need to be modified.

I've tested this light out a few more times (never in complete darkness) and it's probably functional in excess of 400 feet.

It's hard to find complete darkness around here especially complete darkness with enough local objects spaced out to easily determine distance.

By the way, this forward clickies were less than $2.00 and were obtained in the US.

Edit: Forward clicky problem solved! I have two P60 host lights that I was converting to forward clickies. The solution to not being able to fully click when everything was fully tightened down was twofold.

I had already trimmed the length of the "stub" inside the button rubber cover to get these replacement covers to work even with the reverse clickies but now I found that I needed to cut them out altogether.

This solved the problem in one light. These lights were slightly different in one regard...the aluminum retaining ring for the switch in one light had a plastic insulator in the center hole. The other light did not have this and this light now works with the forward clicky with only the cutting out of the "stub".

The second light (with the plastic insulator) works now that I've popped out the plastic insulator as well.

This has got to be the cheapest and easiest way to convert a P60 host reverse clicky to forward clicky!

 

[Caseman2]

c) replace the reflector with a DX TIR type lens (they call them diffuser optics but they're not).

What is the sku # on this?

 

[brted]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

The only beamshots that I've seen where I could really tell something were the series done underground in the Russian utility tunnel posted elsewhere here on CPF.

Interesting post. I have been playing around with a lens as well. I found that the XR-E R2 drop-in focused better than an XP-G R5 drop-in even though the XP-G was brighter at a distance than the XR-E. I also have a smooth reflector and will get some shots of that at some point.

http://budgetlightforum.cz.cc/node/277

 

[gcbryan]

What is the sku # on this?

DX sku 1920. It says that they're glass but they're plastic but it's no problem either...they work well. It's a subtle effect. At first it seems like there is no change one way or the other.

Then you notice that you don't notice a sharp edge on the outer spill and this is because the spill is not as bright and that is because the center collimating lens is doing its job.

The hotspot is brighter. So two advantages. As mentioned as long as your pill isn't potted so the TIR can get right down to the emitter it will just snap on. You could use glue but I haven't needed it.

 

[gcbryan]

Re: Experiment-Just for fun

Interesting post. I have been playing around with a lens as well. I found that the XR-E R2 drop-in focused better than an XP-G R5 drop-in even though the XP-G was brighter at a distance than the XR-E. I also have a smooth reflector and will get some shots of that at some point.

http://budgetlightforum.cz.cc/node/277

When comparing my XP-G R5 and XR-E R2 the center of the hotspot is brighter with the R2 but the hotspot is bigger with the R5 (and still plenty bright).

I also like the R5 better as a general purpose since the spill is a little less bright it blends in better with the larger hotspot and the overall effect is a much smoother light beam.

 

[gcbryan]

For anyone who decides to try these mods I have a final "adjustment" to share.

The DX 28 mm glass aspheric is more or less focused just by putting it where the stock front lens was. You can see the emitter shape in the beam and you can just barely see the lines in the emitter.

To bring it into even sharper focus requires moving it toward the emitter which you can't easily do since that distance is fixed by the depth of the (painted out) reflector.

Someone lent me a bench belt sander for another project so today I took the reflector out and ground the front of the reflector down just about 1 mm.

Now the emitter is in perfectly sharp focus!

 

[^Gurthang]

pics pics pics.... gotta have beamshots!