Fenix TK series design flaw?

[burntoshine]

after reading this thread, more specifically post 11, i realized there's a (in my opinion) design flaw: the tail switch. something's only as tough as its weakest point, and the protruding tail switch doesn't seem to be up to the "tank" standard. i figured the idea behind these lights was to be able to withstand a lot of abuse. i keep hearing about the switches failing in these lights and that just doesn't make much sense to me

i bought the Fenix T1 when it first came out. the T1's switch is protected from falls 'cause it doesn't protrude, which i like. i prefer sunken switches because of this reason.

don't both the tk10 and tk11 (tk12?) have protruding switches? i don't own one, but from the pictures, it seems like they're susceptible to drops. although most pictures of these lights are angled so you can't get a good look at the switch.

this would seem to negate the whole "solid as a tank" claim. "solid as a tank, just don't drop it on the switch".

don't get me wrong, Fenix is one of my favorite flashlight brands. i'm just surprised that they seemed to have overlooked this.

forgive me if this has already been discussed elsewhere, i didn't find anything on a search and didn't feel like sifting through every thread mentioning the TK series.

 

[kageneko]

As with most forward clicky flashlights, the switch protrudes farther than a reverse clicky switch. Look at any flashlight that has a replaceable switch where you have an option for a forward or reverse clicky, such as the Fenix L2D. With the standard reverse clicky, the L2D can tailstand, as the switch does not protrude beyond the tail base. With a forward clicky, the switch does protrude. There are very few forward clicky flashlights that can tailstand, a sure sign that the forward clicky switch does not protrude beyond the tail base. It's not a design flaw... just the nature of the switch.

 

[Lobo]

It's also a matter of the intended market. The T-series is supposed to be a "tactical" light(how I love buzz words and how everything must fit a niche), and as such it "must" have a protruding momentary forward clicky.

 

[Wiggle]

Forward clickies pretty much have to protrude. They have longer throw and if used with a tail standing design it can be uncomfortable I find. That said, I have put a forward clicky into an Ultrafire C2 and it will still tail stand (albeit very wobbly).

 

[burntoshine]

i'm not trying to knock those flashlights; i have considered buying them from time to time. i was just simply looking at it from a strength/failure point of view. that's why i put a "?" on the title.

i like how the switch is easily accessible (due to the three 'fins') on the T1, but still protected. like most flashaholics i assume, i rarely drop a light so i guess it's not much of an issue for most people. i just don't like having that much of a weak spot on a light.

i guess if i was busting through doors with a gun and said light looking for bad guys, i'd want a protruding switch too. since i don't do that very often, i wasn't thinking along those lines.

:candle:

 

[kageneko]

Some model Eagletac lights have the option of a standable base with a forward clicky, but I have not had one to play with to test if it interferes with the function of the switch in a tactical situation.

Yes, the intended use/situation is certainly important. Being in the military, the forward clicky is important in a tactical situation, so tailstands are secondary to the function of the light... which is why I carry 3 lights when in the field

1) proton pro for the compact white/red light
2) l2d for general use with multiple levels of brightness. I had a forward clicky, but it interfered with the times when I needed tailstand capability, and when I use it as a self defense tool (with some 550 cord, you can make it function as a koppo stick or kubotan, and I'm ... proficient with such tools), so I replaced it with the standard reverse clicky.
3) TK11 for tactical situations when I need instant response, momentary on/off for signaling, and appropriate body features for tactical holds and weapon mounts (also with some 550 cord, can be used as a koppo stick, and the crenelated bezel is heavy enough for effective strikes).

 

[AusKipper]

I have several Fenix's with they type of switch your talking about.

After 18 months of EDC the Switch on my TK10 did give out, however, I dont think that makes it an unreliable torch.

Also a replacement switch isnt going to break the bank if you dont get it covered under warranty (like I did..).

I'm pretty sure ALL flashlight manufacturers will have failures on their clickys at some stage, its a moving part and subject to wear and tear etc.

Even Surefires can have dud clickies

No other problems with any of my other Fenix's thus far, and since replacing the switch my TK10 has been fine also.

I DO wish someone would make an ultra-high quality aftermarket one though for say $20 and I would buy that (rated to 1,000,000 cycles or something...)

*edit*
On the cycles thing I estimate mine did about 30-50,000 before it died... no idea if thats average or below average or what...

 

[Woods Walker]

I can't speak about the other TKs however the T20 does not have a protruding clicky. It's raised but off set by the lanyard holes and a raised rim so the light will tail stand. Unless it was dropped on a nail the switch would be protected. On a side not as this light is also packed in my BOB are the switches the same as the TK10 and 11? Thinking these would be cheap and for little extra pack weight could toss one in. Guessing easy to change out in the field too.

 

[AusKipper]

I can't speak about the other TKs however the T20 does not have a protruding clicky. It's raised but off set by the lanyard holes and a raised rim so the light will tail stand. Unless it was dropped on a nail the switch would be protected. On a side not as this light is also packed in my BOB are the switches the same as the TK10 and 11? Thinking these would be cheap and for little extra pack weight could toss one in. Guessing easy to change out in the field too.

Yes, they are the same as a TK10/11.

They are easy to change out in the field, if you have some needle nose pliers (ie, leatherman..)

In an emergency you can also use alfoil over the tail as an emergency switch.

 

[beegee377]

tactical !!! oooh

 

[zipplet]

In my opinion it's not so much that the switch is easy to knock, but more about what type of switch is used. The switch in my T1 died. I disassembled it and found that a very small plastic pin had broken off. It was covered by warranty so I was shipped a free replacement switch (thanks 4sevens). I hope newer TK series lights use a better design switch.

The TK40 uses a simple clicky logic button so I doubt it has the issue. And the TK20's clicky seems to be a lot tougher too

Overall it's not an issue because I believe warranty covers it under most situations.

 

[AusKipper]

And the TK20's clicky seems to be a lot tougher too

I thought they where the same?? hmm.... maybe i should dismantle my TK20 and 10 and find out..

 

[zipplet]

I thought they where the same?? hmm.... maybe i should dismantle my TK20 and 10 and find out..

I'm comparing the T1's to the TK20's. It definately seems different. I know the T1 is not quite in the same series but it sort of is.

 

[Woods Walker]

Yes, they are the same as a TK10/11.

They are easy to change out in the field, if you have some needle nose pliers (ie, leatherman..)

In an emergency you can also use alfoil over the tail as an emergency switch.

Thanks for the info. I have foil in my pack. Wonder if it could be put on and the tail replaced to keep from holding it. I have used a penny just to mess around but it was a horse and pony show. I will order a TK10 switch one of these days just for the backup. I don't expect mine to fail but thinking it would not break my back in terms of weight.

 

[recDNA]

As with most forward clicky flashlights, the switch protrudes farther than a reverse clicky switch. Look at any flashlight that has a replaceable switch where you have an option for a forward or reverse clicky, such as the Fenix L2D. With the standard reverse clicky, the L2D can tailstand, as the switch does not protrude beyond the tail base. With a forward clicky, the switch does protrude. There are very few forward clicky flashlights that can tailstand, a sure sign that the forward clicky switch does not protrude beyond the tail base. It's not a design flaw... just the nature of the switch.

Perhaps not a flaw but I think it is a weakness. The switch on the TK40 is particularly exposed. A removable tail ring that would allow standing and also protect against falls would be a great addition.

 

[jankj]

You can't have the best of all worlds.

I don't know squat about tactical procedures, but it makes sense to me that a big, fat protruding switch is exactly what you want if your line of duty is tactical as in SWAT police or military special forces. Such a switch is faster and easier to operate in a high stress environment.


The draw back is that the mechanism or rubber shield is more prone to damage from dropping, knocking or other kind of abuse: The switch sticks out like a sore thumb.... A recessed switch (like the TK20, or LD series) is more shielded from this kind of damage.


Why people are obsessed with tailstanding capability, particular in tactical or front-heavy lights, is simply beyond me...


So take your pick... but a protuding switch is not nescessary a design flaw, it's a design for a specific application that may or may not apply to you.

 

[GreySave]

I have to chime in with the crowd that prefers a forward clicky that protrudes. In fact, I ground down two of the fins on a JetBeam IIIM to expose the switch. I still need to finish the job and remove the other two fins. I purchased an umprotected switch for my E2DL, but replacement bezels / switches for the JetBeam were not available.

I have small hands and I find the protected switches to be uncomfortable at best and difficult to use at best using my normal hand hold. I can modify the hold to accomodate the protection and did so with the JetBeam for a time, but enough was enough.

To each his own, but for me I will pass on a protected forward clicky in the future if I cannot purchase a different switch or bezel to make the light user friendly to me. I will accept the trade off of a potentially damaged switch from a drop in exchange for the comfort factor and ease of use.

 

[tango44]

Never had a problem with any of my Fenix TK´s 100% reliable and more than a year carrying it, and din not cost me a fortune Fenix TK´s are the best lights for you hard earned dollars.