Field Bioligists looking for quality flash lights

[rollexus]

Hello Everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster...

We are field biologists stationed in Quebec, and looking to purchase high
quality lights for our research related work here in northern Canada.
Our requirements are as follows:

Technical Specs:

* Neutral white (4500-5000K) colour latest LED (ie, XM-L2 T6, 219s etc..)
* Clean beam, long thrower (1-2 LUX @ 100M), sufficient spill
* Current Controlled Driver
- 2x RCR123A - 7.4
- 2x Rechargable CR123A - 6V
- 1x Rechargable 18650 - 3.7.V

General Specs:

* Lightweight
* Durable in extreme cold and hot temperatures
* Low heat dissipation operating temperatures
* No/Low operating noise introduced by the circuit
* Easy selector head interfacing (high, low, moonlight, strobe, beacon)
* No driver and circuitry reliability issues
* Pressure switch activation
* Button Guard / Tail Stand
* Efficient battery usage by the driver given different voltages


* Price Range 100-150
* Hassle Free Warranty

Some important notes:

* On driver support the unit must use RCR123A/LiCoO2 power source as efficiently as it does using
rechargeable CR123A/LiMN, and the 18650 (ie, equal draw undervolt protection, no overvolting etc..) given
the different voltage. More specifically a regulated linear drop in power output as batteries discharge
* On battery support, acceptability of small and wide button form factors.

We were currently considering the following lights:

Eagletac G25 C2 MkII
Fenix TK 22
Foursevens Maelstrom MM-X
Fenix PD35
SRT7 Revenger XM-L2 T6
SRT6 Revenger XM-L2 T6
Olight M22
NiteCore MT25
Xeno G42
Xeno G5

Please understand that we are not hobbyists, enthusiasts or flash light
collectors. All the equipment we carry will be used extensively and for
long periods at a time in extremely rugged terrain. Therefore,
there reliability is of great importance. If you do not feel the any
of the flash lights discussed will meet our requirements,
I would be interested in hearing your input and recommendations.

I also saw some impressive mods such as the one performed
by milkspit. What type of performance, and life expectancy can
we expect from such projects. Are there any lights currently
being sought after for impressive modifactions?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...oducing-the-Milkyspit-L1cx2-quot-Legolas-quot

Thanks in advance,

Nick.

Link removed as per the banner at the top of the page
Why has my link been removed? - Norm

 

[makapuu]

There are a couple of things that needs to be clarified before going further.
I think the battery that you listed (18604) should be 18650, because the 3 lights you're considering uses those.
The 3 lights that you listed all use a cool white LED bin. XM-L2 U2 or a XML U2.
That LED tint are not considered neutral white, one of the requirements you stated.
The cool white tints which are about 6500k are more towards the bluer side of the color spectrum.
Similar to those cars you see on the road with HID headlights that appear to have a blueish tint to them.
My feeling is that you would be looking for a 5000k to 5500k tint, which is considered more neutral.
More like a XM-L2 T6 3C tint for example. Opinions on what is considered neutral can vary from person to person based on the individuals perception.
But I think the example I listed is in the ballpark.
The 3 brands of lights that you listed are reliable and have a good reputation on their build quality.
Other forum member's can add to what I've said and can help with their recommendations.
Good luck on your choice.

 

[archimedes]

Might want to check out Malkoff Devices .... You would probably want the "Neutral" tint options (not cool, nor warm versions).

Depending on your runtime, output, and beam-shape requirements, there are several products to consider (MD2, MD3, MD4, HoundDog, WildCat, etc.).

If accurate color rendering is absolutely critical, though, you might actually want to think about incandescent torches. Although many incandescent models of SureFire have been discontinued, they can still be found, and there are ways to run these with a variety of lamps and rechargeable battery set-ups.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

+1

I'd roll with a "SureFire C2 bored to accept 18mm cells"
and then a "Malkoff Devices M61 219" dropin

Google is your friend

You'll get a flashlight built for war, accepts a single 18650 battery and can clip to your gear. The single mode Nichia 219 Malkoff dropin will give you gorgeous color rendering out in the field, generous spill, long runtimes and a legendary reputation for being tough as nails. Half press the tail button for momentary activation or full press (click) for constant on. Easy and efficient.

(the Malkoff is on back order btw. But if you can wait...)

BTW: I highly recommend a ZebraLight H51C headlamp. It's got a high cri Phillips Luxeon Rebel LED for decent color rendering (better than CREE less than Nichia). You'll also get all the other ancillary modes requested like strobe and moonlight and tail stands. Use it as a hands free guide light clipped to your shoulder strap and on the low setting for a very long run time. Your main spotting light would be the Malkoff.

 

[stienke]

Armytek Predator Pro v2.5 XP-G2 (Warm).
•Neutral White Cree XP-G2 LED (warm)
•640 LED lumen
•Maximal beam distance 350 meters
•Constant brightness for whole operation time
•Fully programmable settings to fit your needs
•Powered by one 18650 Li-Ion or two CR123A/R123 batteries

It's better in extreme cold/hot temperatures not use a 18650 battery , you can use CR123 batteries in these conditions.
Armytek is a very good flashlight and I think it will work for years in the roughness of North Canada , it's better to buy some spare lights when you go into the wilderness for many month's , if one is broken you can use the spare and repair the broken one when you got home.

 

[rollexus]

First of all, I want to thank your all for your responses. I think I violated forum rules by posting links to the units, thank you
moderator for not denying the post and just listing the model numbers. I know that this will be the right place to make my
decision:

I think the battery that you listed (18604) should be 18650, because the 3 lights you're considering uses those.

Yes this is correct I will edit that.

The 3 lights that you listed all use a cool white LED bin. XM-L2 U2 or a XML U2.
That LED tint are not considered neutral white, one of the requirements you stated.
The cool white tints which are about 6500k are more towards the bluer side of the color spectrum.
Similar to those cars you see on the road with HID headlights that appear to have a blueish tint to them.
My feeling is that you would be looking for a 5000k to 5500k tint, which is considered more neutral.
More like a XM-L2 T6 3C tint for example.

This is also correct however, the EagleTac also uses the CREE XM-L2 T6 LE. This is why we were leaning more towards that unit
for the made in China's. Yes HID car light tint would not work in this case. Not sure about the Fenix unit. I would think that both cool
and neutral would be available. As for the 4seven, all they listed was a cool blue unfortunately.


XM-L2 T6 3C Sound like what we are looking for.

Depending on your runtime, output, and beam-shape requirements, there are several products to consider (MD2, MD3, MD4, HoundDog, WildCat, etc.)

Will look into them!

I'd roll with a "SureFire C2 bored to accept 18mm cells"
and then a "Malkoff Devices M61 219" dropin

Sounds like an interesting set-up. We do not mind mods as long as they are done with added benefits with little (if not nothing) taken away.

(the Malkoff is on back order btw. But if you can wait...)

Good things take time <img src="http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" smilieid="1" class="inlineimg">


I did see the zebra lights they look amazing when rock climbing or entering a rock crevice. I like the fenix head strap because it can take
any conventional 18-22mm flashlight. This kind of turned me off the Zebra side way form factor?

Use it as a hands free guide light clipped to your shoulder strap and on the low setting for a very long run time. Your main spotting light would be the Malkoff.

Interesting!!!

It's better in extreme cold/hot temperatures not use a 18650 battery , you can use CR123 batteries in these conditions.
Armytek is a very good flashlight and I think it will work for years in the roughness of North Canada , it's better to buy some spare lights when you go into the wilderness for many month's , if one is broken you can use the spare and repair the broken one when you got home.

Will look into this line for sure!

It's better in extreme cold/hot temperatures not use a 18650 battery , you can use CR123 batteries in these conditions.

You sir are a wise man! Military? Hunter? This is true CR123 in our experience does perform better than 18650. It was
a toss up between the two, and still up for debate. I understand that others may have varying experiences on the matter
and I really don't want to go into discussion regarding that. A unit that supports both 18650 and CR123 would be ideal.



I really appreciate your time and expertise this gents. Whatever decision we will make, I am sure it will be a good one.


Have a lovely weekend.


Nick from Quebec

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Use the multi-quote option for your quotes next time. They should look cleaner.

Bill

 

[rollexus]

Use the multi-quote option for your quotes next time. They should look cleaner.

Bill

Sorry about that bill. Thank you for your time :)

N.

 

[rollexus]

Giving it a little more thought. There is really two train of thoughts here:

1) Modded unit with spare OEM and aftermarket parts on had for failure. ie, tube circuitry,
and bulbs. When going this route it's best to pick a base unit that has a lot aftermarket
parts available on the market. One example I can think about is in the handgun world.
More specifically, the Glock 17, and Sig Sauer P226. These two platforms have a pleather
of after market manufactures providing everything from precision barrels, suppressors, grips,
triggers etc.. I assume the same can be said for flash lights? If so, is there a recent unit
within the warranty period that has a lot of aftermarket parts for (ie, Malkoff Devices) that we
can do some simple drop in mods on, and that would not void the warranty would be ideal.

2) Not get into the whole mod avenue and just pick on quality unit such as the ones mentioned here,
with reliable hassel free warranty that suffice the requirement.

Thanks in Advance,

Nick.

 

[N8N]

I'd give Gene Malkoff a call or drop him a line. A Surefire 6P format light that is bored for 18650s will still accept 2x CR123A (e.g. Malkoff MD2) the question is which light source would work best given that you want to have the option of using both (and possibly 16350/RCR123A as well) and your tint/beam/runtime requirements as well. Might as well ask the guy that makes them. I dropped Gene an email once and he responded promptly and with good advice.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Norm]

I'd give Gene Malkoff a call or drop him a line. A Surefire 6P format light that is bored for 18650s will still accept 2x CR123A (e.g. Malkoff MD2)

Or use a SolarForce host for a very similar set-up, without having to have the battery tube bored.

Norm

 

[archimedes]

The Malkoff "system" is totally modular .... Just pick your parts, assemble your torch, and enjoy !

As long as you make sure that the voltage supply appropriately matches the light engine, you are good to go. When and if you are wanting to upgrade, just swap for the new drop-in or head/bezel assembly .... Repeat as needed :)

 

[obik]

What, exactly, are you doing? Without some specifics, it's hard to make recommendations.

* No regulation and circuitry reliability issues

As someone who's spent lotsa crummy nights knee deep in a swamp with failing lights, I'd say that you definitely want regulated lights.

* Neutral white colour LED. There can be no changes to the natural colour of
studied specimen, introduced by external lighting.

"Neutral white" is not a useful descriptor. You need to provide a color temperature. To me 5000-5500k is neutral white. I was shocked when I bought a "neutral white" flashlight and discovered it was somewhere below 4000k. Not just warm, but positively orange.

If you're going to be photographing specimens and color accuracy is important, there's no substitute for using a proper flash and setting your white balance correctly.

* Button Guard / Tail Stand

The TK22 won't tailstand. Most tactical lights won't.

Some other points:

If you're going to be using your night vision (i.e. sitting around in the dark for a long time, then switching the light on to take notes) you want something with a low mode that is under 2 lumens, and that can be accessed without having to cycle through the other modes.

You probably want a headlight and a torch. Preferably two torches (one flood, one throw).

My field kit at the moment is a Fenix TK15 (1x18650), an Olight S15 (1xAA/2xAA/1x14500), and a Spark SG5CW headlamp (1xAA/1x14500), and if I have a pack, I also bring a Fenix HL30 headlamp (2xAA), another Olight S15, and any lights I may need specifically for the task at hand (Fenix HL21 for insect photography, Fenix TK45 for massive flood and runtime, etc.). I prefer running AAs for simplicity and economics. I've never had trouble with them in extreme cold, but then, I live in Virginia and I rarely spend more than ~4 hours at a stretch out in the cold.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

I'd give Gene Malkoff a call or drop him a line. A Surefire 6P format light that is bored for 18650s will still accept 2x CR123A (e.g. Malkoff MD2) the question is which light source would work best given that you want to have the option of using both (and possibly 16350/RCR123A as well) and your tint/beam/runtime requirements as well. Might as well ask the guy that makes them. I dropped Gene an email once and he responded promptly and with good advice.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 4

I was also going to suggest the bored 6P over the C2, it's a more rudimentary form, sans a clip, which swayed me. Otherwise, yeah 6P 1st and foremost if it doesn't bother you :thumbsup:

 

[rollexus]

I'd give Gene Malkoff a call or drop him a line. A Surefire 6P format light that is bored for 18650s will still accept 2x CR123A

Will do first thing tomorrow.

Or use a SolarForce host for a very similar set-up, without having to have the battery tube bored.

I felt the SolarForce tube before. Did not like the gimping compared to the 6P.

The Malkoff "system" is totally modular .... Just pick your parts, assemble your torch, and enjoy !

Interesting concept! How is the craftsmanship outside of the bulb compared to other manufactures. Durability, circuitry, gimping etc...
Has the reference standard for overall quality minus the bulb fexnix/surefire?

 

[greenlight]

What is your budget and how many do you want to bring with you to share with your new friends?

 

[N8N]

What, exactly, are you doing? Without some specifics, it's hard to make recommendations.

As someone who's spent lotsa crummy nights knee deep in a swamp with failing lights, I'd say that you definitely want regulated lights.

"Neutral white" is not a useful descriptor. You need to provide a color temperature. To me 5000-5500k is neutral white. I was shocked when I bought a "neutral white" flashlight and discovered it was somewhere below 4000k. Not just warm, but positively orange.

If you're going to be photographing specimens and color accuracy is important, there's no substitute for using a proper flash and setting your white balance correctly.

Agree, but I'm thinking a Nichia 219 drop in is pretty damn good for just not screwing up colors for visual inspection. That's about 4500K CCT, higher than a halogen, but can't really find fault with any color rendering.

The TK22 won't tailstand. Most tactical lights won't.

True... Malkoff MD2 will however. I actually bought that tailcap to use on my 6P because it allows tailstanding, has a McClicky to get rid of the twisty, and yet can still be used "tactically" if desired with only a little tiny loss of convenience over the original Surefire Z41 tailcap.

Some other points:

If you're going to be using your night vision (i.e. sitting around in the dark for a long time, then switching the light on to take notes) you want something with a low mode that is under 2 lumens, and that can be accessed without having to cycle through the other modes.

You probably want a headlight and a torch. Preferably two torches (one flood, one throw).

My field kit at the moment is a Fenix TK15 (1x18650), an Olight S15 (1xAA/2xAA/1x14500), and a Spark SG5CW headlamp (1xAA/1x14500), and if I have a pack, I also bring a Fenix HL30 headlamp (2xAA), another Olight S15, and any lights I may need specifically for the task at hand (Fenix HL21 for insect photography, Fenix TK45 for massive flood and runtime, etc.). I prefer running AAs for simplicity and economics. I've never had trouble with them in extreme cold, but then, I live in Virginia and I rarely spend more than ~4 hours at a stretch out in the cold.

I guess we just recommend what we know, don't we? :)

I immediately thought that the light on my belt right now would probably be close to perfect - Surefire 6P, Malkoff M61L 219 drop in, and Malkoff tailcap. Given the OP's requirements though, I would recommend a body that would take 18650s which means the MD2 would be pretty close to perfect out of the box. But, like I said, we go with what we know, so take that with a grain of salt. The next question is, what drop in to use with it? (219? XP-G2 warm tint? Regular XP-G2? What light level? M61 or M31? Single mode or multi-mode?)

Other considerations - how are you going to carry it? Holster? Do you need provisions for a lanyard? Pocket clip?

How difficult would it be to change cells in the field if necessary? (in other words, is runtime of great importance, or is carrying a couple spare cells no big deal?) If that is a problem, maybe a larger format light might be preferable, but I'm not sure what to recommend.

Thinking about a mix of flashlights and headlamps is not a bad idea either. Or even several different types of lights that might be better for different tasks that you forsee, but similar enough that you can mix 'n' match parts if necessary. (another good argument for a 6P based light like MD2 or Solarforce, but with different drop ins.) Also depending on where you're going to be it might be a good idea to have at least one Big, Bad Light for your crew just in case you need to light something up farther away than your "regulation" lights. But when using different types of lights then you also have to take into consideration that it might be good if they could share cells and chargers. I don't listen to myself though; my BBL is a Fenix TK41 (8xAA) and yet my favorite "utility" light is a 6P. Sometimes I'm not real bright. (actually, I thought my EDC would be a Fenix E11, but it seems that whenever I anticipate actually needing a light, I go ahead and take the 6P with me as well.)

 

[TEEJ]

A key set of data points that would go a long way towards narrowing your search would be descriptions of the maximum range that you wish to make these observations at...and an idea of how many meters across you'd want the beam to be a tough that range.

what it is you are trying to resolve at that range would give an idea of the lux on target appropriate to achieve that resolution.

You request color accuracy albeit color temp doesn't equal color accuracy...yet only specify temp ranges.

CRI is the measure of color rendition. ..and you could specify a high CRI light.

Unfortunately the warmer the light...and the higher the CRI, the less you can SEE of whats out there due to proportional drops in output.

That's where knowing your range and beam width will come in handy...as they will tell you what to do about the loss in range and appropriate compensation.

If your eyes are night adapted...a firefly mode is nice....but, if night adapted. ..you don't have color vision requirements either.

If you will be able to see colors well...you need more light on your subjects to resolve details.

The further away your target is, the more lux you need. This is mostly due to your fovea being most required to see details...but having about no low light capability to do it with.

so - If the target is far away...you will likely need to decide if you are going to need color vs fine detail...or massive lighting equipment, etc.

:D

 

[cland72]

Malkoff MD2 with high/low ring, and a M61 219 drop in.

 

[rollexus]

Hello Obik,

Without boring people with details, I just wanted to iron out the form factor of the lights, and the specific requirements that
we are looking for. That being said, it seems like we are doing a lot of the same thing, just in different parts of the world.
Equally important is a color temperature that will not obscure the colour of the terrain, and specimen. Are there any
flash lights coming out with 5000-5500k out the box? The M61 219 that came up on here time and time again is
rated at 4500.

Orange, yellow, blue, green will not work. Another important thing is a clean beam, and decent (300-500 meter) throw.
I did not mention before resistance to moisture, and shallow depths if dropped in the water for short period would be nice?
I hope I am not asking for the impossible!!!

Hmmm, another reason why I am weary about mods is because they have not been tested, designed, moisture proofed etc...
How do some of the mods on here retain the circuitry, shock, and waterproof resilience that the light was originally designed for.
Ok making sure ample voltage is available for the drop in buld however, how will the stock circuitry of the 6P, C2 hold up to the
newly installed hardware. That will probably need to be switched out as well?

If you're going to be using your night vision (i.e. sitting around in the dark for a long time, then switching the light on to take notes) you want something with a low mode that is under 2 lumens, and that can be accessed without having to cycle through the other modes.

Yes, we will need a moonlight mode. As well I mentioned an easy interface using the selector head. None of this death by clicking under
tight circumstances or otherwise.

PS Nice setup