for those with TK40 and run L91/E2 Lithiums

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im assuming thats because lithiums if put in wrong cause a lot more damage than alks :poof: so it may just be an extreme precaution ...unless if its because of to much voltage that may damage circuit but i dont think that is :thinking: i hope not


juggernaut if that is correct that lithiums would not be worked as hard and can easily handle the loads then :)
 
juggernaut if that is correct that lithiums would not be worked as hard and can easily handle the loads then :)

Alkalines are just about on the edge of what I would consider abusing them, but think about it this way, the TK40 runs for an hour on turbo, while the SF M6 only lasts 20 minuets. While the battery chemistry is slightly different, you can only pull the same amount of amps from both batteries “2A“, so the M6 pulls 3C vs., 1C for the TK40:thumbsup:.
 
had the light on turbo running on all lithiums but 1 of them had a different expiration than others ...20 minutes straight but i felt the light got a bit on the warm/hot side so to be safe i stopped...high never even got warm after 30+ minutes...all in all very pleased
 
had the light on turbo running on all lithiums but 1 of them had a different expiration than others ...20 minutes straight but i felt the light got a bit on the warm/hot side so to be safe i stopped...high never even got warm after 30+ minutes...all in all very pleased

It is quite normal for the light to get warm, even a little into hot if it is just sitting in still air, on turbo after 20 minutes.

If you want to make sure the batteries are holding up ok, take them out and check it they are the source of the heat, or if the emitter is.

If the emitter is making the heat, all is good. If it's actually the batteries making most of the heat, that's probably bad. It would be normal for them to be warm under a drain they can handle, but really hot is definitely bad. Like hot enough to start shrinking the plastic jackets on the cells is probably too hot :whistle:

And BTW, the hot pack I had when I put an L91 in the wrong way ocurred when the light was OFF and LOCKED OUT. So watch your polarity, folks. Negative towards the springs!
 
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I use "Duracell pro-cell advanced" I get 1hr 45min on turbo...thats the only setting I use it on...it dose start to dim after that time but is still very usable...this is one of my favorite lights, and it cut through tint on cars like no other on traffic stops.
 
yeah i did take out the carrier to check, the bats were warm but not hot , the wrap stayed the same and didnt shrink ...so far so good
 
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im assuming thats because lithiums if put in wrong cause a lot more damage than alks :poof: so it may just be an extreme precaution ...unless if its because of to much voltage that may damage circuit but i dont think that is :thinking: i hope not


juggernaut if that is correct that lithiums would not be worked as hard and can easily handle the loads then :)

If the only concern is putting them in backwards I'm not worried. I've never put a battery in backwards in my life. It's very easy to see how they go. I don't know how anybody gets it wrong.

If there is more than a .01% probability that the batteries will explode in use or in lockout mode when installed properly I'm getting rid of the TK40. I need to see more stats to make a rational decision.
 
Hi, specific to the TK40 manual, there's no indication of using lithium primaries, only AA and NiMH. And I can only assume when 4sevens does not recommend lithiums was for safety reasons.

What I'll be saying here is based on research and have past experiences of leaky alkalines (AAA, AA, C and D) uncounted for. Mostly in serial configuration from 2 to 4 and above. When I started understanding how these batteries behave, my problems with them have long gone.

Primaries are very sensitive and has a lower resistance, although they are efficient with high current draw applications, they also cannot be drawn too rapidly or they'll get very hot. The reason why it gets hot very fast when putting in reverse polarization because they discharge rapidly when short circuited. It is not caused by the TK40 product.

I personally find lithium primaries are fine if used properly. Assuming the electronic tolerances of the TK40, when putting fresh L91 batteries, they are at 1.80v. Which equals to 7.2v with 4 primaries in serial. Looking at the current draw at 2.3-2.6A (with 1.2v Nimh) on turbo, this load should be perfectly fine with lithiums (the amps draw result should be lower because of higher voltage). For increased capacity, this is where the parallel circuit comes into the picture with owners having problems of leaking alkalines, over-heated lithiums... In general, when running on any chemistries (NiCAD, NiMH, Lithium, Li-ION, alkalines) in parallel, each side should be in the same state of charge. Being primaries, it is more sensitive and must be given attention when using 4 of them in serial, and parallel with another 4 in serial.

An example, during operation of the TK40, when one battery has a lower voltage than others, it depresses the group performance, and the end of discharge point will reach sooner than expected. that battery can be shorted, prolong operation will cause leakage or rapid heat generated by lithiums. But more to it, that group still contributes to the parallel circuit, while the other group of 4 lithiums still performing, rapid discharging occurs and the batteries get heated up rather quickly. And on the other hand, the TK40 has IPX-8 standard which also seals mostly what's inside, I can't assume what will happen... But not a very good end result.

If you have a group of primaries with different voltages, you can still operate your TK40 with 4 of the same voltages at least. When it depletes or when the light start dimming, replace them with the next 4, it appears to be safer. If you have a digital multimeter, it's good to check the voltages if you have been using the batteries over an hour continuously for example, so you'll keep in mind how much it has been drained and how long you can store with the small parisitic drain.

Do you know that your 18650 Li-ONs are serial, parallel design similar with the TK40 concept? It is stable because they are wired permanently and with other factors, some too technical. Most Li-ONs has protection circuit we know about, which monitors each cell connected in series and strings in parallel.

Well, there you go. I think why they didn't recommend was more related to safety. Corrections are welcome.
 
One thing I am thinking after reading pseudoblue's post is that lithium primaries could be used to run TK40 with only 4 batteries... Would the higher drain capacity let the light run at full power? Would it be safer? You would eliminate having batteries coupled in parallel, which to me would seem a good thing.


All other things being equal, I would rather have 4 spare batteries I know are full as well as 4 being somewhat depleted inside the flashlight than all 8 batteries being somewhat depleted inside the flashlight...
 
One thing I am thinking after reading pseudoblue's post is that lithium primaries could be used to run TK40 with only 4 batteries... Would the higher drain capacity let the light run at full power? Would it be safer? You would eliminate having batteries coupled in parallel, which to me would seem a good thing.

All other things being equal, I would rather have 4 spare batteries I know are full as well as 4 being somewhat depleted inside the flashlight than all 8 batteries being somewhat depleted inside the flashlight...

4 will let the light run at full power, but for a shorter time. My point is to use 8 Lithiums with the same state voltage, also it increases the capacity (mAH) to double when in parallel, they will be depleted altogether during operation. If 4 is more depleted than another 4 newer ones, then it's better to use them separately.
 
no linky, but 4sevens has said the manufacturer "quietly" updated all their manuals to reflect that lithiums were not among the recommended cells. It was implied that their were many many problems from (idiotic) user error involving the batteries. ie inserting them into the carrier improperly and/or using mismatched cells. (using lithiums would make the above problems especially a problem). As a result of the misuse and users abusing the warranty that they will "never" build such a light again.
 
another words, if you're not an idiot...ie know proper battery use, you're not going to have any problems with L91's.

*however, using them would void the warranty


In Sum:
-Flat side negative
-Don't use mismatched cells (I'd personally always buy them in an 8 pack)
 
Hi, Fenix has replied my mail regarding the use of lithium batteries and also, I had permission to share this info here.

Thank you very much for using Fenix light.

For the TK40, we don't suggest you use lithium battery, usually the Lithium battery volt is higher than 1.5v which we require, so it will do harm to the light, even though the volt is not higher, as you know, the lithium battery has more dangerous factors than the Alkaline and Ni-MH, and TK40 use 8 batteries, then the power will be very great if it's Lithium, so we can't ensure whether it's safe for the light, if you don't take care, there will be the danger that we can't anticipate in advance.

So for the light's safety, please don't use Lithium battery in the TK40, meanwhile, if you don't use it for a few days, please put the battery out.

Thanks!

Well there you go.

From my point of view, I think she also meant that it will stress the electronics. Running fresh L91s would be about 7.2v. Fresh Alkalines about 6.2, NiMH has about 5v.
 
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