HID vs LED Throw

[campfir3]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on CPF and I have a couple questions.

I want to know what the difference would be in terms of throw from an HID handheld spotlight to a CREE handheld flashlight?

I have been looking at something in the price range of $100-150 and after looking at CREE flashlights such as the Fenix TK41, I have noticed HID handheld spotlights that have almost triple the amount of lumens for a similar price or cheaper.

Do these HID lights have great throw when you compare them to great CREE LED throwers?

Thanks

 

[jellydonut]

Firstly, Cree is a manufacturer, not a model of LED. Cree makes a lot of different LEDs, and throw will differ widely between models. Worst throw will come from the MC-E and XM-L models, with the XP-G being somewhat better, the XP-E somewhat better than that again, and the XR-E having the best throw. This is due to surface brightness - the higher the brightness per surface area unit, the more throw you will get. Usually, smaller LEDs will have the highest surface brightness. Their size also makes it easier to focus their output.

As for HID vs LED, usually, HID beats LEDs in the throw category. This is because of the above mentioned fact. An electric arc will usually be much smaller than an LED (thus much higher surface brightness at the same output level), and in a proper HID light situated right at the focal point of the light's reflector, giving it great focus.

Another factor, which is arguably more important, is quality and reliability. An LED light in the price class you mentioned will be a good quality light and will probably last you a lifetime. However, $100-150 for an HID light is another story. If you buy an HID at this price point, it will probably disappoint you, and maybe even fail you altogether sooner than you'd like.

Problems with HID lights with 'LED price tags':
- very long warmup time. We're talking a minute or more for the worst offenders. Compared to the instant-on of an LED, this is a big drawback.
- long wait between restrikes. You can't just turn it on and off like an LED light. This counts against the lights practicality in actual use.
- poor quality and Q/C, especially the no-name brand ones so common in this category. Failed ballasts and/or lamps are common.
- poor build quality, usually cheap ABS plastic housings for the 'megamart' type store chain lights.

Basically, my personal recommendation is to buy an LED light regardless of the HID's theoretical superior throw, unless you are willing to spend a lot more on an HID. Output and throw aren't the only things you should consider when buying a light. :)

 

[campfir3]

Wow, thanks for all of the info!

So I have a question based on your response.

I am looking at getting the Fenix TK41, as I've heard it has decent throw compared to the TK45. But you stated that the XM-L LEDs are not great throwers, so would something like the TA21 or the LD20 with XR-E LEDs offer a better throw, even though they have about a 1/3 the lumens as the TK41?

Thanks again!

 

[Cataract]

The TK41 should definitely out throw most -if not all- HID's in the same price range. My TK40 definitely out throws my 100$ HID. I suspect that the reflectors used in cheaper HID's are not well optimized for throw (mine definitely isn't). On the other hand, the cheaper HID's offer a great amount of flood and great amounts of light.

The TK45 has 3 smaller reflectors, so it is floodier, but throws almost as much as the TK40. The TK41 definitely beats that hands down. here's a link (check the beamshot comparisons):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-TK41-with-measurements-and-outdoor-beamshots

The TK41 will definitely out throw the TA21, due to reflector size. The two main factor that influence throw are (in very large terms):

Reflector: the size, depth and shape of the reflector is a big factor in throw. Bigger reflectors collect more light and a good shape and depth (usually parabolic) will send that light in a more parallel beam, so concentrate that light in a smaller spot with less scattering.

Size of the source: A smaller LED is a more concentrated source and will be collected in a more parallel beam

The intensity of the source will also definitely make a difference, but I have seen lights with a lot less lumens beat a 500 lumen monster.
Optics can also make a good difference in concentrating the beam.

The TA21 is a pretty good thrower for the size, but nothing near TK41 ranges.
The LD20 is not really a thrower, but beats other lights with larger hot spots.

Of all the lights you mentioned, the TK41 is definitely the best thrower by far.

 

[campfir3]

Thanks for the quick reply and info Cataract, appreciate it.

After what you guys have said and what I have researched it looks like I will go with the TK41.

Thanks again.

 

[jellydonut]

Yeah, I did neglect to mention that reflector size plays into throw as well. The LED size comparisons are only valid when each LED is in a flashlight (and reflector) of a similar size. If you put a large LED in a 3" reflector it is going to outthrow a small LED in a 1" reflector regardless.

Optics and aspherical lenses are something else again, but let's not go there.. :)

 

[Cataract]

Thanks for the quick reply and info Cataract, appreciate it.

After what you guys have said and what I have researched it looks like I will go with the TK41.

Thanks again.

np. Glad I could shed light on the situation :laughing:

Fenix are very nice lights and I'm sure you'll just love it.