High CRI and high lumens… have the cake and eat it too?

Fuzzywuzzies

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If the criteria include both flood and throw, may I ever-so-gently suggest that you consider two lights, with one of them being a dedicated thrower? Many excellent throwers don't require 2000+ lumens to illuminate at distance, and even if the thrower uses a cool white emitter, a high CRI isn't going to be of much real use at distances greater than 100 meters, because you're not likely to be able to perform much in the way of color separation at that distance anyway. My reading of the posts above suggests that two separate lights - one high CRI with a broad beam pattern, and one dedicated thrower - will satisfy the mission objectives better than a single light. Also, a single light combining the desired capabilities will of necessity entail significant compromise in the design, come at substantial cost, or both.

It's not my intent to rain on the parade; I'm just focusing on the mission objectives.
Thanks @DaveTheDude for your thoughts.
I invited insults too, in good humour, because I realise I'm asking for something on the edge of current technology, and yes, expecting costs to match. (I'm not rich, but I've saved up quite a bit for this, and don't mind putting my money where my mouth is)
@Chauncey Gardiner 's "cow" response was hilarious, thoroughly en pointe, and exactly the sort of response I was expecting. "Need" and "Want" are easily distinguished, but the line between "Want" and "Dream" is a fine one, and is what - I think - drives innovation and invention.

I guess if you boil it down, there are two parts to this:
1. I do need a light (or perhaps two as you have well suggested) for the job described.
2. Because I'm a "torch guy", and not currently pressed for time or budget, I'm exploring the edges of what can be done with current illumination technology with decent light quality.

And to directly answer your specific suggestion of two lights; I'm not looking for "throw" so much as "a very flood beam with a little more centre-beam density". This is in contrast with the beam on my EDC Elzetta Bravo, whose flood borders on bare cob-style flat, with no real hotspot. Perfect for my everyday work as an inspection engineer, but no reach to speak of.
I do also want a good mid-sized thrower for other purposes, but don't want to muddy the waters with that here…

Edit: The reason for the high lumen count is twofold, first because beam angle dilutes candela, second because I detest turbo. (Hence also the runtime dream)
 
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"And to directly answer your specific suggestion of two lights; I'm not looking for "throw" so much as "a very flood beam with a little more centre-beam density".

With the above criteria in mind, I invite you to consider the Jetbeam T4 PRO. (I shamelessly copied Jetbeam's product image.)

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The T4 PRO is a 2,580 lumen hand-held light that uses 1 x 26650 cell, powering a Cree XHP50 LED. It's rechargeable (USB cable included); it has four levels of brightness: 50-300-1000-2500 lumens. Strobe and SOS functions are hidden, more or less, requiring a double click for access. The light has a simple and gratifyingly large metal side button that works as both a power switch and a mode switch, making one-handed operation easy.

With regard to the beam pattern, the light offers a 20-degree center spot with a broad spill beam: I estimate (using my highly calibrated eyeball) that about 75% of the light energy is within the central beam. Turbo mode produces approximately 20,500 candela. Turbo mode requires a high drain battery. After about six minutes on the turbo setting the output will decrease to somewhere in the vicinity of 1800 lumens, and at the ten minute mark it will have declined to the 1000 lumen output level, and will remain steady at the 1000 lumen level for about two hours.

Max run time is 85 hours at the 50 lumen level. The light uses a constant current circuit. IPX8 waterproof rating.

There are a number of thorough reviews of this light online including beam shots; I encourage you to read them and see if this is something you might find useful.
 

LEDphile

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The T4 PRO is a 2,580 lumen hand-held light that uses 1 x 26650 cell, powering a Cree XHP50 LED.

Turbo mode requires a high drain battery. After about six minutes on the turbo setting the output will decrease to somewhere in the vicinity of 1800 lumens, and at the ten minute mark it will have declined to the 1000 lumen output level, and will remain steady at the 1000 lumen level for about two hours.

Max run time is 85 hours at the 50 lumen level. The light uses a constant current circuit. IPX8 waterproof rating.
I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in those output numbers - the Cree XHP50 is rated for about 2300 lumens for a top bin running at maximum rated current, and that doesn't count the losses in the reflector or lens. OTF lumens for an XHP-50 with realistic binning are going to top out at around 1800 lumens for the package being driven at max rated power. Now, it's possible that Jetbeam opts to drive the LED beyond the manufacturer's ratings for their turbo mode, in which case I'd be worried about longevity. It may be just fine for the expected number of hours of operation, however.
 

Jean-Luc Descarte

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I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in those output numbers - the Cree XHP50 is rated for about 2300 lumens for a top bin running at maximum rated current, and that doesn't count the losses in the reflector or lens. OTF lumens for an XHP-50 with realistic binning are going to top out at around 1800 lumens for the package being driven at max rated power. Now, it's possible that Jetbeam opts to drive the LED beyond the manufacturer's ratings for their turbo mode, in which case I'd be worried about longevity. It may be just fine for the expected number of hours of operation, however.
That and the XHP50 is far from being renowned for its CRI.
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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Thanks @DaveTheDude, that is exactly, precisely the beam profile I had in mind.
Good points about output physics and CRI on that emitter though, @Jean-Luc Descarte.

I'm still pretty interested in the Zebralight SC700Fd, but it's out of stock (again!) and maybe I'm just a teeny-tiny little bit of a tint snob, but the thought of ending up on the sad side of the ZL tint lottery is making me twitch a little. I could risk the challenge of an emitter swap, but that's probably a game for another day…

I think I should take the plunge on @Chauncey Gardiner 's advice and buy the Foursevens Maelstrom MX3F and try the different optics and outputs. :party:
 
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I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in those output numbers - the Cree XHP50 is rated for about 2300 lumens for a top bin running at maximum rated current, and that doesn't count the losses in the reflector or lens. OTF lumens for an XHP-50 with realistic binning are going to top out at around 1800 lumens for the package being driven at max rated power. Now, it's possible that Jetbeam opts to drive the LED beyond the manufacturer's ratings for their turbo mode, in which case I'd be worried about longevity. It may be just fine for the expected number of hours of operation, however.
I can't speak to everyone's experience with Cree XHP50, but the runtimes I cited are the ones I experienced in my use of my Jetbeam T4 Pro. I find that for me, this light is best thought of as being a good, solid 1000 lumen light, with a five minute, 2500 lumen turbo-burst mode available when additional photons are desired (assuming the battery is not too depleted to deliver the required current).
 
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I think having five minutes of turbo would be awesome! This is the first I've ever read of such a prolonged turbo period. (y) (y)
The turbo setting declines gradually, almost imperceptibly, over the first five minutes of use, from 2500 lumens to 1800 lumens or thereabouts, then over the next five minutes gradually declines to about 1000 lumens, where it happily stays stable for the next two hours.
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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I think having five minutes of turbo would be awesome! This is the first I've ever read of such a prolonged turbo period. (y) (y)
I believe the Zebralight SC700Fd uses real-time thermal throttling, meaning you can extend the turbo time significantly (several minutes) in colder temperatures, or even depending on how you hold it. Very nice in my opinion, although I don't (yet) have hands-on experience with it.
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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Ha! Found it!
In closing a bunch of browser tabs from this little research excursion, I revisited the Acebeam X50 2.0, and discovered that if you hold your tongue right while viewing their website, they do a 95+ CRI version, advertised for photography. It's a much lower output than the Cree emitter version (but still absolutely stupid-level lumens), and gets super hot - but will hold a steady output about 2000 lumens for well over an hour without cooking your egg too quickly. :au:

It is at the top end of the size profile I had in mind, but hey, physics, right? I don't know how well the Getian GT-FC40 emitters will hold up at the temperatures Acebeam are allowing this light to reach, but someone's got to test it - I volunteer as tribute.


The only real downside to all of this is that Acebeam are out of stock; and I no longer have an excuse for the unexpectedly expansive contents of my Foursevens shopping cart… :rolleyes:

EDIT: This light is discontinued, and basically not available to buy new anywhere now.

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Got Lumens?

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Ha! Found it!
In closing a bunch of browser tabs from this little research excursion, I revisited the Acebeam X50 2.0, and discovered that if you hold your tongue right while viewing their website, they do a 95+ CRI version, advertised for photography. It's a much lower output than the Cree emitter version (but still absolutely stupid-level lumens), and gets super hot - but will hold a steady output about 2000 lumens for well over an hour without cooking your egg too quickly. :au:

It is at the top end of the size profile I had in mind, but hey, physics, right? I don't know how well the Getian GT-FC40 emitters will hold up at the temperatures Acebeam are allowing this light to reach, but someone's got to test it - I volunteer as tribute.


The only real downside to all of this is that Acebeam are out of stock; and I no longer have an excuse for the unexpectedly expansive contents of my Foursevens shopping cart… :rolleyes:

View attachment 47446
Not sure if You know, but Foursevens is still much alive. Contact them directly at Support(@)Darksucks(.)com for personalized support regarding your concerns and questions.
GL
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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Not sure if You know, but Foursevens is still much alive. Contact them directly at Support(@)Darksucks(.)com for personalized support regarding your concerns and questions.
GL
Yep. I have a very high regard for Jason and his work, as well as David. I confess I did find one outlet in Canada with stock of the Acebeam X50 2.0 High CRI, but after much procrastinating, I couldn't quite bring myself to buy it.

In the end my gut said "if the light will do the job, then patronise a company whose people you respect", so I did. :)
 

Fuzzywuzzies

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Well… um, it's like this you see…
I bought the Foursevens Maelstrom MX3F, and my wife went and bought the Foursevens Mini Turbo for me as a gift!! What a pair! What a gift! She's the finest around for sure.

@Chauncey Gardiner , I think I may owe you a Guinness too. The Maelstrom MX3F is a stunningly understated piece of engineering, a very honest torch, and perfectly up to the task.
One can always gripe about stepdowns and whinge about hotspots and wish for more lumens, but you won't hear it from me tonight.

The fact of the matter is the MX3F does the job excellently, and I wouldn't return it if you paid me to.

The Mini Turbo is a very cute little thing; until you turn it on that is, whereupon it reveals itself to be a stout little thrower. I strongly suspect it may quietly find itself riding shotgun by my Elzetta… "Two is one and one is none." (I lent my Elzetta to someone for a moment the other night in the middle of a job, and then realised I had no backup! It took me literally almost two minutes in the pitch black to remember that cellphones have flash-lights these days, and I did have a cellphone. By that time I had already found my way blind halfway back to my colleague. Oops.)

Anyway, I ramble. Thanks to all who chimed in on this thread with your insults, humour, and thoughts.
:lovecpf:

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Fuzzywuzzies

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Thanks! I'll see if I can find the thread, and share the photos there as well.

That was the medium 33 optic, the wide 60 is lovely for close work, but the medium is better for our needs.
It's funny, your summary of the cows' thoughts is hilariously accurate - our stock are very accustomed to us, but they were looking a bit stunned at the amount of light! :clap:
 
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