Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

[daveman]

"I just assumed it would be better, especially for $100."

It looks to me like JSBurly may be price gouging to take advantage of the demand for the Cree XR-E.

Ease up on the finger-pointing there, LightScene. While I appreciate (truthfully) your looking out for your fellow CPFers against price gouging, you should be certain before you accuse Jon of something like gouging.
JSBurly's is selling the HA XR-E FT-01 for $90 with no shipping charge, Lighthound is selling the same for $99, could be even more with shipping.

edit to add: if your charge turns out to be false, you should offer a quick apology to Jon.

 

[jsr]

chevro - like I said, a power source with 59% the capacity resulting in a runtime of approximately 59% relative to the other power source is what I'd expect from a linear regulator. And when I'm talking about current draw duty cycle as a result of voltage, that is power (P = VI) and power is watts. Again, if the runtime difference is the same as the capacity difference (R123A runtime is 59% of 123A because capacity is 59% of 123A), that looks like a linear regulator. A switching regulator (buck) should result in a longer runtime than what is given solely by the capacity (Wh). Again, not talking mAh...talking current duty cycle as a result of voltage. How a switcher (buck) works is to alter the duty cycle to change efficiency resulting in better or worse runtime...not a perfect correlation between runtime and capacity as what we're seeing with the FT-01 (which points to a linear regulator).

 

[greenLED]

It looks to me like JSBurly may be price gouging to take advantage of the demand for the Cree XR-E.

Your suggestion is ludicrous.

JSB is not only one of the best dealers on CPF, he's one of the most honorable people I've ever met.

 

[LifeNRA]

Your suggestion is ludicrous.

JSB is not only one of the best dealers on CPF, he's one of the most honorable people I've ever met.

+1
Jon is one of the most trustworthy people I know.

 

[EngrPaul]

Check your definition of "price gouging" vs. free market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

You don't have to buy the Cree flashlight as a basic need.

Now if somebody was selling EverReady flashlights during a flood for $50, that would be price gouging.

 

[TJZ]

Jon is "ONE OF THE BEST" out there!!!
He has been extremely helpful with my purchase and questions.
He has gained a lifetime customer.

Also my Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E Cree P4 from him is Ten Dollars
Cheaper than other places.


Thanks Jon

 

[Glockstersharp]

"I just assumed it would be better, especially for $100."

It looks to me like JSBurly may be price gouging to take advantage of the demand for the Cree XR-E.

Jon typically has the best prices on the Huntlights. He's most definitely a stand-up guy. I think you should check out the competition's prices out there prior to questioning his character.:thumbsdow

 

[chevrofreak]

chevro - like I said, a power source with 59% the capacity resulting in a runtime of approximately 59% relative to the other power source is what I'd expect from a linear regulator. And when I'm talking about current draw duty cycle as a result of voltage, that is power (P = VI) and power is watts. Again, if the runtime difference is the same as the capacity difference (R123A runtime is 59% of 123A because capacity is 59% of 123A), that looks like a linear regulator. A switching regulator (buck) should result in a longer runtime than what is given solely by the capacity (Wh). Again, not talking mAh...talking current duty cycle as a result of voltage. How a switcher (buck) works is to alter the duty cycle to change efficiency resulting in better or worse runtime...not a perfect correlation between runtime and capacity as what we're seeing with the FT-01 (which points to a linear regulator).

Would not a linear regulator pull the same amount of current no matter which cells it was powered with, then simply burn up the extra voltage as heat? That's not what the FT01PJ luxeon does. With 2 CR123a's measuring 6.07v it was drawing 490mA, with 2 RCR123's with 8.15v it was drawing 420mA and with an 18650 measuring 4.14v it was drawing 700mA. If you calculate those out to their wattage they match up fairly well with the differences in brightness for the different cells.

 

[LightBright]

How about just asking Huntlight what they're running the light with? I feel like y'all are discussing how deep the snow is at the north pole without going up there yourselves. :touche:

Watt-hours for sure will tell you something about what to expect in runtimes from a cell, and then there's the efficiency of the circuit used to drive the LED. A linear reg will be fairly efficient IF the cell voltage is near the LED's working voltage, and as the cell's voltage gets farther away from the LED's working voltage, a switcher will be the more efficient choice.

chevro - those voltages/current you posted for CR123's, RCR123, and the 18650 - looks like you were measuring the Open Circuit voltage, not the voltage measured while the cells were under load.

 

[chevrofreak]

chevro - those voltages/current you posted for CR123's, RCR123, and the 18650 - looks like you were measuring the Open Circuit voltage, not the voltage measured while the cells were under load.

They were, but it was only meant to show that the current level changes depending on input voltage, which would pretty much mean it doesn't use an LDO.

 

[jsr]

Would not a linear regulator pull the same amount of current no matter which cells it was powered with, then simply burn up the extra voltage as heat? That's not what the FT01PJ luxeon does. With 2 CR123a's measuring 6.07v it was drawing 490mA, with 2 RCR123's with 8.15v it was drawing 420mA and with an 18650 measuring 4.14v it was drawing 700mA. If you calculate those out to their wattage they match up fairly well with the differences in brightness for the different cells.

chevro - you're right, a linear reg would keep the current the same (since it's really only regulating voltage) unless the internal resistance of the cells are making that much of a difference (I've seen a 200mA difference between a R123A and a 14500 in my Jet1 due to the internal resistance difference of the two cell types). When I ran my FT-01 with a single 3.7V cell (single R123A), the current wasn't much different from what I got from 2x 123As or 2x R123As. Just strange to me that the higher voltage doesn't provide more runtime...higher voltage in a switcher acts similarly to increased capacity. Oh well. Do you plan on getting a Lumapower M1 Cree also to do comparos with the Huntlight Cree?...it'd be nice to see those two compared in output and runtime.

 

[chevrofreak]

Do you plan on getting a Lumapower M1 Cree also to do comparos with the Huntlight Cree?...it'd be nice to see those two compared in output and runtime.

I won't be able to purchase one, but if Lumapower would send me one to test I would be glad to do it. If they don't want to do that I could probably borrow one from someone here to test.

 

[LightBright]

chevro - you're right, a linear reg would keep the current the same

A voltage regulator keeps the OUTPUT Voltage the same and pretty much the current too, although when driving an LED at a set voltage, the current may drift slightly.

The INPUT Current will change as the INPUT Voltage changes (with a steady output load), simple as that.

 

[jsr]

Ok, took some current measurements with various cells on my FT-01:

1x R123A (3.7V loaded) = 485mA
2x 3.7V R123A (~7.4V loaded) = 550mA
2x 123A (<6V loaded) = 500mA
2x 3V R123A (6V loaded) = 505mA
1x 14500 (3.7V loaded) = 600mA
1x 17500 (3.7V loaded) = 630mA

So it does look like a linear regulator. The current differences are due to the internal resistance and contact resistance of the cells. A 14500 cell has lower internal resistance than a 16340. A 17500 has lower internal resistance than a 14500. Each resulting in higher current (even tho they're at the same voltage) due to a reduction in the series resistance. An 18650 would have even lower internal resistance than a 17500 which would explain the higher current with that cell even at the same voltage level. Not a complaint, just an observation. The FT-01 would've likely cost more had they used a buck regulator. One of the reasons I love my FT-01 so much is knowing how low the price is/was making it such a great value for it's performance.

LightBright - yes, a voltage regulator regulates voltage, which the rest of my sentence that you quoted states "since it's really only regulating voltage". However, it's not that simple. There are operational differences between a buck regulator and linear regulator (both of which are voltage regulators) when it comes to their efficiencies and power consumption, which is the reason one is chosen over the other depending on application.

I'm looking forward to the comparison with the M1 Cree to the FT-01 Cree. Hope you get an M1 Cree soon chevro.

 

[chevrofreak]

Ok, took some current measurements with various cells on my FT-01:

1x R123A (3.7V loaded) = 485mA
2x 3.7V R123A (~7.4V loaded) = 550mA
2x 123A (<6V loaded) = 500mA
2x 3V R123A (6V loaded) = 505mA
1x 14500 (3.7V loaded) = 600mA
1x 17500 (3.7V loaded) = 630mA

So it does look like a linear regulator. The current differences are due to the internal resistance and contact resistance of the cells. A 14500 cell has lower internal resistance than a 16340. A 17500 has lower internal resistance than a 14500. Each resulting in higher current (even tho they're at the same voltage) due to a reduction in the series resistance. An 18650 would have even lower internal resistance than a 17500 which would explain the higher current with that cell even at the same voltage level. Not a complaint, just an observation. The FT-01 would've likely cost more had they used a buck regulator. One of the reasons I love my FT-01 so much is knowing how low the price is/was making it such a great value for it's performance.

LightBright - yes, a voltage regulator regulates voltage, which the rest of my sentence that you quoted states "since it's really only regulating voltage". However, it's not that simple. There are operational differences between a buck regulator and linear regulator (both of which are voltage regulators) when it comes to their efficiencies and power consumption, which is the reason one is chosen over the other depending on application.

I'm looking forward to the comparison with the M1 Cree to the FT-01 Cree. Hope you get an M1 Cree soon chevro.

Is yours one of the original FT01's before the PJ and XSE? I'm damned near positive the PJ and XSE's use a switching regulator instead of a linear regulator. They changed the circuit for the PJ model (same circuit used in the XSE), but I'm not sure what they changed about it.

 

[yellow]

thanks for the graphs. I was thinking about the huntlight quite some time now, because being one of the few multi-level, Cree, 18650 lights but did not like the agressive optics of strike bezel and such.
But with these graphs, I will now wait for smaller, less "muscle" lights...
also price might come to reasonable levels by then.

 

[LightBright]

LightBright - yes, a voltage regulator regulates voltage, which the rest of my sentence that you quoted states "since it's really only regulating voltage". However, it's not that simple.

There are operational differences between a buck regulator and linear regulator (both of which are voltage regulators) when it comes to their efficiencies and power consumption, which is the reason one is chosen over the other depending on application.

Yep, I know they're different - I've been in the electronics industry for about 23 years. I'm designing my flashlight circuits with a switcher. :huh:

 

[jsr]

chevro - yes, mine is before the PJ (but after the initial release, so it's the brighter version of the first generation I guess). Perhaps they did change it out to a switcher.

Lightbright - nice! You should consider offering some affordable switcher drivers to CPFers. There are about 3 members offering their own drivers, but it doesn't hurt to have options, especially if they're affordable. Many of the drivers currently offered cost as much as lights themselves. A low cost but efficient option would be great!

 

[chevrofreak]

iNDiGLo very generously bought some of AW's 750mAh high current RCR123's and an Ultrafire charger for me after I had mentioned that my old protected cells were pretty much dead and useless for testing. Thanks a bunch buddy!

I've run the light on all 5 levels using those cells and the data has been added to the graphs.

 

[chevrofreak]

Lightbright - nice! You should consider offering some affordable switcher drivers to CPFers. There are about 3 members offering their own drivers, but it doesn't hurt to have options, especially if they're affordable. Many of the drivers currently offered cost as much as lights themselves. A low cost but efficient option would be great!

Agreed. I dislike the .55" size of the commonly available ones since they're far too small to easily replace the circuit (or lack there of) in my CR123 sized lights.