Identify Lux emitters?

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robk

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I have several emitters removed from flashlights and removed from their stars, so they have no markings. Is there a way to visually determine whether they are 1 or 3 watt? I know I have a few 3's but I made the mistake of putting them in a parts bin with a few older 1's. With a loupe, I can't see any difference!
Thanks,
Rob
 
power them all as if they were 3W, the ones that dont blow, are 3watt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Actually, a 1W should survive 1A of current with good heatsink. Basically, there is really no way to tell.
 
Hello there,

I was going to suggest checking voltage drop at maybe 350ma
but i see from the two data sheets they will probably
look the same! Makes me wonder if the III's are just
differently binned I's ?

Take care,
Al
 
[ QUOTE ]
Azecos said:
I thought that the wires in the emitter where a bit thicker then the 1-watters? I'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side-by-side extreme macro shots have revealed no difference in the bond wire thickness between a 1W and L3. I've experimentally shown that the bond wire fusing current is around 3A, so there wasn't really any need for Lumileds to increase the bond wire thickness to support 1A of current.
 
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[ QUOTE ]
evan9162 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Azecos said:
I thought that the wires in the emitter where a bit thicker then the 1-watters? I'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side-by-side extreme macro shots have revealed no difference in the bond wire thickness between a 1W and L3. I've experimentally shown that the bond wire fusing current is around 3A, so there wasn't really any need for Lumileds to increase the bond wire thickness to support 1A of current.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanx for clearing that out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Ok, now I am really /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif! If there is no visual way for the emitters to be identified, what then is the difference between the 1W and 3W Luxeons? How is the 3W able to handle the extra power?
 
I have wondered what the difference between the 2 is.
I have seen "1watt" emitters take up to 1.5 amps just fine with good heatsinking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/caution.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
eebowler said:
Ok, now I am really /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif! If there is no visual way for the emitters to be identified, what then is the difference between the 1W and 3W Luxeons? How is the 3W able to handle the extra power?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lumileds claims better thermal management on the 3W, both in the star construction (the emitter is directly epoxied to the aluminium of the star board, but not electrically isolated; while the 1W is bonded to a thin, isolated copper layer on the star), and in the junction-slug interface (the 1W is rated at 15C/W, while the 3W, 13C/W).

The internal changes that allow for the better junction-slug thermal conductivity won't be visible to the eye, neither will other enhancements that are on the materials level that would allow for better high current light production.

Are there separate 1W and 3W assembly/fabrication lines? I don't know. Is it possible that the 3W are simply high-binned and well-performing 1Ws? Maybe.
 
Thank you evan for your response. Please tell me, where on the Lumileds site can I find this information. I have tried searching before, but only get info for the 1Ws.

Also, from what you described above, it seems to me that what everyone calls a 3W Luxeon LED is simply a new and improved 1W Luxeon. Why then do they call it a 3W Luxeon (as if it is something completely new) and why don't they simply stop making the inferior 1W LED? Are the reasons cost?

Another question for anyone who can answer.. The slug of the LED is not electrically isolated right, then, what is it connected to, posative, negative, other? My point is this, if the slug is connected to either +ve or -ve, then why not use this fact in a flashlight's design?

Thank you.
 
[ QUOTE ]
eebowler said:
Thank you evan for your response. Please tell me, where on the Lumileds site can I find this information. I have tried searching before, but only get info for the 1Ws.

Also, from what you described above, it seems to me that what everyone calls a 3W Luxeon LED is simply a new and improved 1W Luxeon. Why then do they call it a 3W Luxeon (as if it is something completely new) and why don't they simply stop making the inferior 1W LED? Are the reasons cost?

Another question for anyone who can answer.. The slug of the LED is not electrically isolated right, then, what is it connected to, posative, negative, other? My point is this, if the slug is connected to either +ve or -ve, then why not use this fact in a flashlight's design?

Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Datasheets:
Luxeon III star: http://www.luxeon.com/pdfs/protected/DS46.PDF
Luxeon III emitter: http://www.luxeon.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF

The slug is electrically connected to the silicon substrate upon which the LED die (the light emitting chip) is mounted. The substrate has 2 diodes embedded in them for ESD protection. The anodes of the diodes are connected to the slug, while the cathodes are at each of the power leads. The slug isn't actually usable as a contact for current flow, since the diodes are arranged in the wrong direction. However, maintaining isolation is a good idea, to prevent current from flowing from the slug through the diode and out one of the power leads. It's possible that enough current could flow through that path to cause one of the bond wires to fuse open.
 
[ QUOTE ]
eebowler said:
Why then do they call it a 3W Luxeon

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are referring to Lumileds, I don't believe that they do. It is others, such as you, who have adopted the practice of referring to the Luxeon III product as the "3W" Luxeon.

[ QUOTE ]
eebowler said:

Another question for anyone who can answer.. The slug of the LED is not electrically isolated right, then, what is it connected to, posative, negative, other? Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you are referring to the White/blue/cyan/green ones, the answer is "other". There are a pair of ESD protection diodes from the slug to each of the power terminals with the anodes of these diodes connected to the slug.
 
I snapped a picture of a Lux III and a Lux I LD

3w-1wLD.JPG


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif
 
From tearing them apart, I think I remember seeing a deeper well around the die inside the 1 watt. The 1 watt was almost on a pedestal. That was an old low dome that burned up compared to a new 3 watt that I destroyed while removing it from a star.

Daniel
 
Both the Lux I and Lux III are single die, with the premium die going to the Lux III. I understood (but cannot absolutely confirm in print) that the Lux III also has some packaging from the Lux V including thicker bond wires, but the difference is going to be hard to measure externally.

If you have access to a spectrometer, it might be easier to tell that way. The Lux III will remain closer to its bin code through a wider range of drive current while the Lux I will tend to do more of a yellow to blue shift as you drive it from 200ma up to 800ma.

Perhaps the other way to do it that is close enough is to just use a light meter. In general, a Lux III will be brighter than a Lux I at the same drive current. Likewise, if you can plot drive current vs voltage for each LED, it is likely that the Lux IIIs will be better. (lower)
 
[ QUOTE ]
gadget_lover said:
From tearing them apart, I think I remember seeing a deeper well around the die inside the 1 watt. The 1 watt was almost on a pedestal. That was an old low dome that burned up compared to a new 3 watt that I destroyed while removing it from a star.

Daniel

[/ QUOTE ]

What you're seeing is the difference between a low dome and high dome. A low dome has the die recessed in a cup in the pedistal. The optic extends down into this cup slightly. The high dome has a flat pedistal (no cup), and the dome sits quite a bit above the die, filled in with silicone encapsulant.
 
One difference between Lux3 Stars and lux3 Emitters is the lead size. The pic below shows two Lux3's, note the different lead frame used.

LuxIIIs.jpg


I don't know if all Lux3 Stars are made this way, but this one was!
 
Good work Crux! All of my LuxIII look like yours.

Too bad I can't see my leads in my arc4 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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