K.I.S.S.....

[Steve C]

For a simpleton (me), please... a lot of the jargon and terms you serious light guys use is hard to decipher at times.

I have been reading references to rechargeable 123s, PILAs, etc. In another thread, someone recommended an L4 with McE2s switch in a Z52 (figured that out, since I have one just like it) and "Pila 168s with charger".

Okay: just what IS a Pila 168, how does it work, does it present any danger to my L4, where can I get them and the charger, and for how much? And will these also work in a 6P body/KL3 head/Z49 tailcap combo?

Here's my angle; I have two 123-powered LED lights, mentioned above, both of which are "better" than the 3AA and 2D lights that currently see duty as around-the-house (IOW, get used a lot) lights. I would like to use the L4 and KL3 for this purpose, and while getting 123s is no problem right now, I'll be retiring soon and will have to start paying for those little suckers.

If there is a viable, proven venue of rechargeable batteries for these lights, that would be just perfect; use the rechargeables for normal times, and have a stash of 123s for power outages, etc.

Otherwise, I'm going to invest in another AA-powered light and some AA NImH cells with charger.

A short, concise explanation of these rechargeable 123s and a recommendation (yea or nay) would be greatly appreciated.

TIA...

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I don't have any details about the rechargeable stuff that replaces 123s...

But I CAN tell you this. The prices for a Pila or two and the charger for it/them are out of my league.

So I use AA NimH powered stuff the most. And Electrolumens XM3 and Lambda 3W Drop in for a Minim*g or Brinkmann are SUPERB AA lights!

 

[KevinL]

A Pila 168S is a rechargeable lithium ion battery with protection circuit (ie. won't do Nasty and Evil Things to you), and it is the size of two regular CR123A cells. It will fit the L4 just fine.

One 168S delivers 3.7V nominal, and the L4 is ok with it. However, the KL3 - I'm not sure. I've heard the KL3 requires higher voltages to work, though 3.7 to me sounds like it just might.

Unfortunately, you may find just as I did, that rechargeables are a hassle because of all the different voltages, the compatibility issues, physical size issues, charger issues, etc. there is no "one size fits all" unlike CR123As, so you may end up keeping different kinds of very expensive batteries and chargers around for different lights. I'm working on developing a least-cost, unified rechargeable solution for all my lights and it simply doesn't work. Straight up, you're looking at $30 for the cell and $43 for the charger. If you want another cell to keep in the charger so you don't have to wait for it to fill up, that's another $30.

$100 buys you 100 Batterystation CR123s, which are very good cells. In a two-cell light like the L4, that is fifty hours of runtime. You'd have to use your Pilas for over fifty hours/50 recharges to break even. This makes sense if for example you are using the light for an hour every night. It depends on your usage patterns.

AA on the other hand is very much more convenient, very much CHEAPER, and a 1:1 exchange with any of your lights currently using AA cells.

 

[JanCPF]

And just to add to what Kevin said, you can buy the Pila Li-Ion cells at our very own JonSidneyB ([url]www.jsburlys.com)[/url] . The L4 with a Pila 168S is a great and well working combo, running the KL4 in full regulation for about 50 min. Just make sure you order the 168S version (NOT 168A ) for your L4. The 168A doesn't fit inside the L4/E2e body.

Jan

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Steve C,

Pila cells come in 4 sizes.
168s = replaces 2 CR123 and will fit most SureFire lights.
168a = replaces 2 CR123 in length, but is fatter. Works in Pila lights and the U2.
150s = 2 of them replace 3 CR123 and will fit most SureFire lights.
150a = same length as the "s", but fatter.

The "a" cells are fatter and have higher capacity. For example: 168a has a 2000 mAh capacity and the 168s has a 1400 mAh capacity.

The difficulty is that 2 CR123's = 6 volts and 1 Pila 168 = 3.7 volts. Likewise, 3 CR123's = 9 volts and 2 Pila 150's = 7.4 volts. Incandescent lamps, expecting 9 volts will "yellow out" and be dim with 7.4 volts. There are 7 volt replacement lamps for some SureFire lights. Likewise, an LED that is set up to run at 6 volts may have some problems at 3.7 volts. My L4 has no problems, but I have heard of some people having problems.

Kevin has brought up the point that different lights use different batteries, and if you use rechargeable batteries, that will require several different size cells and several chargers. You can get around this by only buying lights that use batteries that you are set up for. The problem with this is that there are "must have" lights out there that require different set ups.

The two reasons to use rechargeable cells are cost and performance.

If you use your lights regularly, you will save money by using rechargeable cells. There is some maintainance involved, so you have to be a bit organized as well.

The performance side is very apparent when you check Alkaline VS NiMh cells, however the Pila cells hold a constant voltage longer under load than do the CR123's.

I got my Pila's from JS Burly's who is a sponser here.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Edited for corrections. Thanks Jan.

 

[Steve C]

Thanks a ton, guys. I was getting the idea that AA/NImH was the smart way to go. You fellows confirmed it; I appreciate the comprehensive, well-written explanations.

 

[JanCPF]

Small correction to SilverFox' post: "Pila 158s" should read "Pila 150s".

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Jan,

Thanks for catching that. I have edited my post and it should be correct now.

Need another cup...

Tom

 

[KevinL]

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
The difficulty is that 2 CR123's = 6 volts and 1 Pila 168 = 3.7 volts. Likewise, 3 CR123's = 9 volts and 2 Pila 150's = 7.4 volts. Incandescent lamps, expecting 9 volts will "yellow out" and be dim with 7.4 volts. There are 7 volt replacement lamps for some SureFire lights. Likewise, an LED that is set up to run at 6 volts may have some problems at 3.7 volts. My L4 has no problems, but I have heard of some people having problems.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, one more correction. The Surefire 9V lamps run very well with rechargeables. The P90 actually operates around 7.3V, and since lithium ions don't sag as much as primary cells, it works out very well. Project C2-90 has had many discharges on it, and the P90 is still doing great. No compromise in brightness/light quality vs 3 CR123s with an A19 extender.

Regulated LEDs generally do not have a problem either because the regulator will 'step up' 3.7V to the required voltage to feed the LED. The L4 is regulated, as is the U2.


Hopefully lithium ion technology will mature and come down in cost, but for now, AA NiMH is more cost effective. After all, the whole point of rechargeables was to save money, not cause us to spend extra money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Kevin,

I know that Pila sells a replacement lamp that is supposed to work better than the stock SureFire lamps when using their batteries. I was unaware that P90 would work at lower voltages as well.

Thanks.

Tom

 

[KevinL]

No problem, just letting you know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MR Bulk tested 2x Pila 150S with both P90 and 91, and mentioned that the 91 was even brighter than with normal cells. He's got a lightmeter, which I'm lacking. Pila does have a 3.7V lamp, intended to replace the P60 and run with one rechargeable cell.