Kaidomain 2 D cell Li-Ion 5AH battery pack

EvilLithiumMan

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 20, 2003
Messages
613
Location
Chula Vista, CA
You can view the specs. at:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3985

Size compared with standard (60mm) D cell:
pack1.jpg

Kai states for standard Mag spring to be cut down. I was able to install the
battery pack without trimming the spring, but it is a pretty tight fit.

I have two packs. The shrink sleeving on one is incomplete at the protection
PCB, the PCB itself feels very firmly attached:
pack2.jpg


Capacity testing was done with a 2D host, equipped with an AWR Hotdriver set to 6.9 volts. (I tried like heck to get 7.0 volts, but the pots on these devices are finicky. The coarse is too coarse, the fine too fine and after six beers I gave up).

I tested with three bulbs, each one twice. Capacity is easily calculated by multiplying the run time by the current. (Amps x Hours = Amp Hours). Packs were charged to 4.20 volts and the charging terminated when the current dropped to 500ma. (.1C)

Magcharger bulb, WA1110. (By the way, anyone ever notice that, rerated or not, WA1110 and WA1256 have identical specs.?) Battery pack ran for 2.75 hours at load of 1.75A, capacity = 4.8AH

WA1160 bulb. Drew 4.08 amps for 70 minutes (1.167 hours), capacity = 4.76AH

Phillips 5761 bulb. Drew 5.4 amps for 52 minutes (.867 hours), capacity = 4.68AH

Though not quite a full 5.0AH capacity, it is very good and an improvement over "version 1" of these cells, an unprotected cell which others have reported to have a capacity of 4.4AH.

Note: Many Li-Ion users prefer not to charge to 4.2 volts, so if charging to 4.10 or 4.15 volts, expect a little less run time.

I have misplaced my box of big *** Ohmite Brown Devil 100 and 300 watt resistors and am unable to verify if the pack/protection circuit supports 16 amp loads. The largest load I could manage to make was 8 amps, which worked fine.

And now the bad/disappointing results: I could not get either the high or low voltage protection circuits to function. I maxed the voltage to 8.60 volts (4.30 volts per cell) and the pack continued to charge. Above 4.30 volts, Li-Ion cells begin a dangerous process of deterioration. I stopped at this point. Kai claims 4.20 volts is the high trip point. It didn't happen for me. Low voltage trip is claimed to be 2.75 volts per cell (5.50 volts for the pack). I stopped discharging my packs at 4.6 volts (2.3 volts per cell). The packs quickly recovered to 6.0 volts when the load, a 2 ohm resistor, was removed.
 
I've now tested the single D cell protected Li-Ion 5AH battery. It has a wider PCB positive button than the 2 cell pack. So wide, in fact, it won't make contact with a Mag's positive battery spring, as the Mag has a slightly concave surface. I had to add a "solder button" for it to work.
pack3.jpg


Capacity testing showed showed it to be the same as the 2 D cell pack. The protection PCB still does not fuction at recommeded levels; same problem with the 2 cell pack. Low voltage cutoff was at 1.9 volts, way below the usual 2.5 volts seen in other protected cells. As with the 2 cell pack, no shutoff ocurred at 4.25 volts when overvoltage shutoff should happen.
 
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The protection circuitry is touchy. You won't be able to run the 5761. I tried this pack with an AWR Hotdriver and an Osram 64275 bulb. No dice.
There is no way this thing will support a 16 Amp load. I stripped the protection off and now run them in a Mag275 with a hotdriver. That will take care of the low voltage protection. I charge with a BC-8 so charging is covered.
 
Thank you very much for this review. It confirms my initial reaction upon seeing these for sale, that I'm a lot better off (i.e. safer) NOT getting large Li-ions of unknown quality. Or any Li-ions of unkown quality for that matter.

The non-functioning protection in these Kaidomain cells gets a big :thumbsdow
 
hmm that is very disappointing
I ordered 2xdouble and 1x single but now wondering if i should cancel the order
 
Re: d li-ion battery pack from kai?

thanks...i looked but i guess not hard enough for that thread. still getting used to searching and how things are abbreviated.
 
Re: d li-ion battery pack from kai?

If you go with Kai cells, I'd recommend you get the individual cells and not the bound "pack". These work fine once you get them to light, but the problem is that the short circuit protection is way too sensitive, which means that the inrush current of most bulbs, including the ROP high, is enough to trip the protection and cause the cells to not work. You will need to have some sort of soft starter if you want to use them. The most elegant way to do this would be to get a AW hotdriver switch, then go for the Philips 5761 (bipin, and significantly higher output than ROP) but that's an expensive option ($75).

Your cheaper option for a soft start is to install a NTC resistor in series.
If you do this, the Kai cells will deliver close to the nominal 5Ah, and will actually maintain their brightness better than the AW C Cells, particularly under heavy load usch as the philips 5761 (the smaller cell has more internal resistance)
 
Re: d li-ion battery pack from kai?

I'm going to tack this thread on to the end of EvilLithiumMan's review, but I'll leave a re-direct in the Batteries section.
 
After reading this thread I was concerned that the cells might not have working short circuit protection. However I shorted the pack out through a 20amp fuse and the fuse didn't blow and the packs protection cut in. So that makes me sleep a whole lot better.
 
I experienced issues with the 2x KD li-ion battery pack such that the protection was so sensitive that it would break the circuit before my lamps would light. This was problematic with any lamp hotter wattage than ROP lo and KD 773U (so no ROP hi or 5761). I have found a fix after reading a post by NorthernLights, http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=190433 post number 25. This is pretty easy to do, all you need is thethermistor from newark.com part number SL12 1R010 and wire it up in series with some sort of electrical isolation from the top of the spring as well as from the battery negative from the top of the spring. My solution utilized a circular disc of ABS plastic epoxied to the top of a mag spring (cut down about 4 windings) with a small 10-24 machine screw and nut with a blue ring terminal clamped and soldered to one wire on the NTC. The other wire of the NTC got soldered to some copper braid which was then soldered to the bottom of the spring. Everything was, of course, shrink wrap insulated. I have a resistance fix in the switch as the NTC is supposed to prevent the 5761 from instaflashing.
Much thanks to NorthernLights and others who helped to enlighten this forum with this cheap and easy NTC mod. This fix allows this high capacity, but touchy protected battery pack to be used with hotwires.:grin2:

UPDATE: I added 4 more NTC thermistors in parallel (total 5) to further reduce resistance. This makes the 5761 much whiter/brighter.

S6300095.jpg

S6300097.jpg

S6300099.jpg

S6300100.jpg

 
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I experienced issues with the 2x KD li-ion battery pack such that the protection was so sensitive that it would break the circuit before my lamps would light. This was problematic with any lamp hotter wattage than ROP lo and KD 773U (so no ROP hi or 5761). I have found a fix after reading a post by NorthernLights, http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=190433 post number 25. This is pretty easy to do, all you need is thethermistor from newark.com part number SL12 1R010 and wire it up in series with some sort of electrical isolation from the top of the spring as well as from the battery negative from the top of the spring. My solution utilized a circular disc of ABS plastic epoxied to the top of a mag spring (cut down about 4 windings) with a small 10-24 machine screw and nut with a blue ring terminal clamped and soldered to one wire on the NTC. The other wire of the NTC got soldered to some copper braid which was then soldered to the bottom of the spring. Everything was, of course, shrink wrap insulated. I have a resistance fix in the switch as the NTC is supposed to prevent the 5761 from instaflashing.
Much thanks to NorthernLights and others who helped to enlighten this forum with this cheap and easy NTC mod. This fix allows this high capacity, but touchy protected battery pack to be used with hotwires.:grin2:

UPDATE: I added 4 more NTC thermistors in parallel (total 5) to further reduce resistance. This makes the 5761 much whiter/brighter.





Thanks for the recognition.
I had troubles with these batteries too using them on a 5761.

Here is my solution to that:
Another M*gCharger 5761, but why
 
Don't buy anything at Kaidomain. They will never follow their RMA procedure in case of defective product. :thumbsdow

I have wasted 100$ and a lot of time after buying a maha C9000 at their webstore. They sold me a defective product which was probably not new (reconditioned ?) and they tried to avoid a replacement from the begining. I have sent the product back to them the 18th of july and I am still waiting for a solution.:whistle:
 
Don't buy anything at Kaidomain. They will never follow their RMA procedure in case of defective product. :thumbsdow

I have wasted 100$ and a lot of time after buying a maha C9000 at their webstore. They sold me a defective product which was probably not new (reconditioned ?) and they tried to avoid a replacement from the begining. I have sent the product back to them the 18th of july and I am still waiting for a solution.:whistle:

Check out his thread:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=175738
See the promise in post #86 to me (how ironic, that is my badge #) Link to Jerry from here and see what happens!:shrug: or :sick2:
 
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