Learning the basics!

[Bernoulli1]

G'day,

I am trying to upgrade the exterior lights in my car to something more bright and vibrant.
I have done some reading and perusing here but haven’t found anything as basic as the info I need to figure out how to go forward!


The car has 1156 turn indicators and 1157 brake/stop lights. I’ve already replaced my head light bulbs to the Night Breaker Plus which are awesome.


Just two quick questions: what will give me the best result for what I’m looking for, regular bulb or LED?
Secondly, say for example the indicator, what would give the better result – an amber tinted regular bulb/LED light output or a bulb/LED with no colour?

The indicator housing on my car is clear, the brake/stop light lens is red, the reverse light lenses are white (no colour).

Any help is extremely appreciated!

Cheers

Joe

 

[-Virgil-]

Over the next few years we will see legitimate LED replacements for bulbs like the ones on your car -- the very first ones, from Philips, have just hit the market for certain specific year/make/model applications in the US market. There will be more from Philips and Osram. What's available now is a long, long list of unsafe, illegal junk from disreputable makers, so for now "LED bulbs" are out of the question as far as safe and legal performance, let alone an upgrade.

The best upgrades for your bulbs come from Honda. They're about 45% brighter and are of very high quality. The dual-filament part number is 34906-SL0-A01 and the single-filament is 34903-SF1-A01. Make sure to buy only genuine Honda bulbs (made by Stanley), because the aftermarket versions, all of them, are really no good. There is a better upgrade for the back-up (reverse) lamps, that is a bulb number 796 you can get in good quality from Dan Stern or Candlepower. Don't use it in other applications, though.

(I'm curious: you say you've got 1156 and 1157, which are US-market bulb numbers, but "G'day" and "indicators" and "reverse light" and "colour" don't sound American, they sound Australian where you're more likely to have P21W and P21/5W. What kind of car do you have, and where?)

 

[Bernoulli1]

G'day Scheinwerfermann,

Appreciate the detailed reply mate!

I'll steer away from LEDs then and have a look at those Honda bulbs, cheers. Will also grab a few of those reverse lights!

Well spotted! Yeah, I'm from Australia - I thought I was just using US terminology with the bulb types and thought they would be the same thing, am I wrong?

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Over the next few years we will see legitimate LED replacements for bulbs like the ones on your car -- the very first ones, from Philips, have just hit the market for certain specific year/make/model applications in the US market. There will be more from Philips and Osram.

How are they getting around the rules about how the part must work properly in any place that it fits? It seems that exemptions like that will add a lot of complexity to enforcement. Suppose the '97 Hunfire and the '01 Victrola require an 1157 for a certain function, having been designed for it. Then suppose that Philips says they've got an LED 1157 replacement for the Hunfire but not the Victrola. Shouldn't the fact that it does not *directly replace* the 1157 for all cars mean it's not compliant? Will it be a dealer-only part because of that?

I'm not sure how much wider the floodgates can get, but a product like that could encourage the junkmakers further.

There is a better upgrade for the back-up (reverse) lamps, that is a bulb number 796 you can get in good quality from Dan Stern or Candlepower. Don't use it in other applications, though.

LOVE those things in my Previa.

 

[-Virgil-]

I'll steer away from LEDs then and have a look at those Honda bulbs, cheers. Will also grab a few of those reverse lights![

They should all do well for you.

Well spotted! Yeah, I'm from Australia - I thought I was just using US terminology with the bulb types and thought they would be the same thing, am I wrong?

P21W - 1156 and P21/5W - 1157 are physically and functionally interchangeable, though their specs are a little different in terms of power consumption and light output, also the "P" bulbs specify nickel-plated bases and differently-shaped base contacts on the P21/5W. The Honda bulbs and the 796 have the nickel bases, which is important in some (mostly European) sockets that can cause problems with the 1156/1157 bulbs with plain brass bases.

 

[-Virgil-]

How are they getting around the rules about how the part must work properly in any place that it fits?

There's no such requirement for signal bulbs, which are officially unregulated in the American markets. The rules work from the other end: it's not legal for a regulated party to "render inoperative" a safety system or device, and "rendering inoperative" includes doing anything that degrades the safety performance of the system or device such that it is no longer within the legal range. I note with some concern that the publicity photos of the Philips LED bulbs contain language that they're legal in "most" vehicles, but if you actually go to the Philips application chart you'll see there are actually very few applications they've tested and found acceptable performance with these LED bulbs. And let's not kid ourselves, nobody's going to say "Oh, wait, I'd better not install these because my vehicle's not on the chart". They're going to say "Way cool! LED 1157s from Philips!" and put 'em in. Will the resultant performance be safe/effective/legal? That's anybody's guess. I will be interested to do some playing around with these and see if I can see any patterns in terms of effect on performance with different kinds of lamp optics, new and old alike.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I suppose, really, the problem has moved from being "conceptual" to "implementational"-- but we're still a long way off from such a product working exactly right in every fixture the filament bulb worked correctly in.

 

[hokiefyd]

I suppose, really, the problem has moved from being "conceptual" to "implementational".

I certainly don't intend to sound argumentative about this, but I may anyway. It has been repeated many, MANY times on this forum that the problem with LED retrofits into signal lamps isn't a technological problem, nor is it an implementation problem. It's a conceptual problem...an LED source will never be the equal of a filament source, and the optics designed for one type of source simply will not work with another type of source.

Has this really been a problem of implementation all along, and we simply didn't know it? This is sure to add fuel to the fires of those who believe that HID retofits (or even LED retrofits) are possible with better products or more research, won't it?

 

[Alaric Darconville]

It has been repeated many, MANY times on this forum that the problem with LED retrofits into signal lamps isn't a technological problem, nor is it an implementation problem. It's a conceptual problem...an LED source will never be the equal of a filament source, and the optics designed for one type of source simply will not work with another type of source.

Indeed, it has. I, myself, felt it was more of an implementation problem, but the technology at the time didn't allow it. Obviously, the concept was wrong when one considered the available technology. However, we're still a long way away from an LED retrofit working exactly correctly in EVERY lamp that the original filament bulb would work in.

Has this really been a problem of implementation all along, and we simply didn't know it? This is sure to add fuel to the fires of those who believe that HID retofits (or even LED retrofits) are possible with better products or more research, won't it?

Some fuel. For the HID "kits", it really shouldn't (unless light guides get so awesomely good that they can take the arc's dual-hotspot image and create a filament's single-hotspot image from it). I'd say that we'll be seeing porcine aviation first.

As far as LED's go, it'll move to "yes, but" where the "but" is that the thing must be made in a very certain specific way and that way is not just a barrel-shaped gadget with 20+ LEDs stuck on it.