Li-Ion 14500 storage life vs. Eneloop

[jcw122]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to know how Li-ion batteries stacked up vs. the Sanyo Eneloops (or other similar NiHM's) with regards to shelf life. If they are left sitting for a long period of time, will they lose their charger faster or slower than low discharge NiHMs? Thanks.

-Jon

 

[travelinman]

Slower.

 

[jcw122]

Thanks.

 

[Gryffin]

Lithium Ions have VERY low self-discharge.

Case in point: just the other day I was cleaning out a gadget "junk drawer", and found a cheap old Chinese flashlight that must've been sitting in there for at least two years with the same two LIR RCR123A/16340 cells in it. Hit the switch, and it lit right on up.

Just fer grins, I tested the voltage: 4.2V outta one, 4.1V outta the other. Dropped 'em into the WF-139 charger to top 'em off; both channels went "green" in well under a minute.

Self discharge? What's that?

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

jcw122, though li-ions hold their charge for a long time, it is unhealthy to leave li-ions fully charged and store them. Though I am no battery expert, many of the battery experts on this forum discourage leaving li-ions fully charged when storing them.

According to many, the recommended state of charge is around 40-50%. Please, Battery Experts, correct me if I am wrong.

 

[jcw122]

jcw122, though li-ions hold their charge for a long time, it is unhealthy to leave li-ions fully charged and store them. Though I am no battery expert, many of the battery experts on this forum discourage leaving li-ions fully charged when storing them.

According to many, the recommended state of charge is around 40-50%. Please, Battery Experts, correct me if I am wrong.

That is interesting, can anyone else chime in to verify this?

 

[Black Rose]

It's true, you don't want to store Li-Ion cells long term with a full charge.

 

[ifoxbox]

That is interesting, can anyone else chime in to verify this?

You may be interested in this link: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

 

[koala]

How long are you looking to store your Li-Ions? Their capacity degrade as soon as they leave the factory, after a few years of storage they get old, whether used or not. NiMH don't.

 

[jcw122]

Thanks everyone, I understand now

How long are you looking to store your Li-Ions? Their capacity degrade as soon as they leave the factory, after a few years of storage they get old, whether used or not. NiMH don't.

I don't own any Li-ions, just doing my homework on them. I didn't nessesarily mean capacity degredation, I know about that happening in several years, I mean't their charge lowering by itself over time (like normal NiHMs).

 

[Rexlion]

The whole point of using a low or no self-discharge batt is to put a fully charged batt in a light and know it will be ready to use with a full charge whenever the time comes. I'm talking about lights in the glove compartment or whatever. I'm not going to run Li-Ions down to 50% just because it might make the battery last an extra year or two; I'll buy a new battery when the time comes, they aren't that expensive. I want a full charge when I grab that thing and need it.

I suppose some people will say it's better to keep eneloops or lithium primaries in such a light. Probably so. But I don't think it'll break my bank account to buy a few new Li-Ions every so often... lithium primaries have to be replaced when they run dry, too, and even eneloops' charge will sag somewhat over a year or so. Besides, what if that glovebox light takes an 18650?

 

[tabetha]

I have some AA eneloops, and also my fave uniross hybrio.
Having left 5 of each after being fully charged on my Technoline(La Crosse BC900) for 3 months, the uniross were light years ahead of the eneloops.
On this side of the pond both batts are easy to get don't know about in us though ?
tabetha

 

[SemiMan]

Cobalt electrode Li-Ions lose 15-20% of their capacity (forever) if you leave them fully charged at room temperature. If you live in a hot climate and leave them in your car, that number goes up. Cycling them which keep them at lower voltages may actually increase the life of the battery.

NiMh do lose capacity as well from non-use but that is chemistry dependent. Eneloops seem to be better at this and I expect lose less that 15% year on year (forever) and hence may be better that Li-Ion.

That said, given the higher cost of rechargeables, if you do not intend to use the light, just put in alkalines, low voltage Lithium AA, etc. which will last a very long time with low self discharge.

 

[DM51]

though li-ions hold their charge for a long time, it is unhealthy to leave li-ions fully charged and store them.

This is correct. It is best to store Li-Ions at 3.8V - 3.9V.

If you need to store a light fully-charged for an extended time, for example in your car glove box, Lithium primaries are your best bet.