Lithium AAA

[brightnorm]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wus:
I wonder why you are all craving for this new lithium AAA ... do you really see a big advantage over well designed alkalines? From comparing AA lithiums and alkalines, I would say by far the biggest advantage of the lithium is it's much higher price (for the manufacturer, that is ...)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wus,

I have tested both Alkaline and Lithium AA's in 4xAA divelights Tek 40 and UKE Mini Q40.
The difference in runtime, especially bright runtime is significant.

The lithiums start whiter and brighter and maintain their advantage at least an hour longer than the expired alkalines, even when compared against the excellent Ray-O-Vac Maximums (a Best Buy IMO). This plus their previously mentioned advantages make them a first choice, especially for my "what if" lights.

Brightnorm

 

[rodmeister]

For me, the only reason to use AAA Lithiums is the 10 years shelflife. I keep a couple Lithium AA's in my car: just in case the alkalines poop out from self-discharging. I don't want to find a dead flashlight after a couple years, when I really need the light. I also keep one set of four AA Lithiums for household emergencies, to back up my NiMH's and alkalines.

 

[sflate]

Is the only thermal advantage of Lithiums on the cold side? Do they perform better than alkalines when sitting in a hot car?

 

[hotfoot]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sflate:
Is the only thermal advantage of Lithiums on the cold side? Do they perform better than alkalines when sitting in a hot car?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had alkalines drop to less than half-charge in less than a month sitting in the tropical heat here in Singapore. In contrast, my Ergo with lithiums is still as bright as my other lights stored indoors.

 

[Flashlightboy]

It's been almost 2 1/2 months since the last post and I'd thought I'd revive it and ask if anyone has heard anything.

In May I sent Energizer an e-mail asking them to produce the Li-AAA but I didn't receive the usual corporate reply. You know, "Thanks for the interest in ..." In fact, I didn't receive a thing.

 

[Saaby]

In chat (Sorry no logs yet...that's being worked on though) Peter said that Energizer says they're "not working on lithium AAAs"

Or in other words they are but don't know when they'll be ready.

 

[John N]

It was asked why would you want a lithium AAA battery.

One thing that I would like is to have some low cost, long running but fairly bright emergency lights. Being indestructable and waterproof would be useful too!

I would think that a PT Attitude with lithiums would work very well for this.

-john

 

[hank]

Another reason I really want lithium AAAs -- when I go winter/snow camping, and during the LONG winter nights, I use my Palm Pilot to catch up on writing for a few hours during darkness after I'm slept out.

And with alkaline AAAs, the voltage drops off as the Palm gets colder, til the low battery warning pops up, and I have to slip it inside the sleeping bag to warm it up, over and over.

Flashlight's equally a problem with very cold weather.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I know I am being ignorant, but how do you plan to use
lithium AAAs? They are over twice the voltage of Alkalines,
so if you put them in the same slot they will blow out
whatever you are powering.

We are considering making lithium AAAs, but (along with
every other manufacturer) we are worried that if they
fit into a 1.5 volt slot people will be destroying their
equipment.

Also, you may know that most lithium primaries are limited
in their ability to source large currents. What is the maximum
you would like to see?

Best regards
mark

 

[B@rt]

Hi Powerstream,
welcome to CPF! They (we

) are talking about a 1.5 V lithium AAA, simular to the 1,5 V lithium AA's, wich are available (Energizer).

 

[sunspot]

As Bart said, 1.5v. I know there is the 3.6v AA Li (Is it the SAFT?) type that is used in a low drain app as a alarm or CMOS backup but that is a bit fatter then the 1.5v AA as in the Energizer L91.
Yes, please make a 1.5v AAA like the L91 and lots of people will buy them if the price is not prohibitive.

 

[Starlight]

PowerStream, we need a 1.5v AAA size lithium battery with at least the maH rating of a normal AAA alkaline. The batteries will be used in flashlights in place of alkaline AAA's.

 

[hotfoot]

I would certainly buy Lithium AAAs if they became available - especially for emergency or mission-critical equipment. And I'm not talking just flashlights either. They would make fantastic standby battery packs for mobile phones or other comms equipment, GPSs...etc. I'm pretty sure too that if lithium AAAs became available, smart equipment manufacturers would be able to capitalize on the smaller form factor of the AAAs.

 

[hank]

For Mark Lund (Powerstream) -- would you explain for us the difference between the existing D, C, and AA-lithium-1.5-volt cells now available, versus the 3+volt cell you are considering but worried about?

We know about the nearly-AA sized lithium 3+v cell long available for computer backups -- someone's already used one in a CMG ultra single-AA LED light without blowing that up right away (time will tell ....). Apparently it's different enough and expensive enough that people don't confuse it with the AA 1.5v lithium cells.

But I don't understand the difference (chemistry? physical structure?) that lets you get the two different voltages out of an AA size.

Clearly Powerstream was thinking AAA-3+volt, while the folks here are mostly asking for an AAA version of the available 1.5v lithium cells.

Likely there is a longer name for the chemistry involved (lithium-phlogiston vs. lithium-upsidasium cells?), and it's different chemistry for different voltages?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I see, these are Lithium-Iron cells that only have about half
the energy density of the Lithium-Iron, but could still outpreform
alkalines. Thanks for educating me!

I'll talk to the factory about the AAAs.

Best regards
mark

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I meant "half the energy density of Lithium-Ion. I was
pondering the fact that only an "r" seperates the two
names while I was typing, and sure enough, inserted
it.

Sorry, I have a used brain and have run out of the warranty.

Best regards
mark

 

[Bushman]

Mark, Lithium Iron, Lithium ION or both? I am confused?!

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The Li-Fe sulfide cell has the lower voltage and lower energy.
That is what this thread has been about

The Li-Ion cell has 3.6 volts and higher energy capacity, but
can't be plugged into a 1.5 volt flashlight.

Best regards
mark

 

[Doug S]

Originally posted by hank:
But I don't understand the difference (chemistry? physical structure?) that lets you get the two different voltages out of an AA size.

Clearly Powerstream was thinking AAA-3+volt, while the folks here are mostly asking for an AAA version of the available 1.5v lithium cells.

Likely there is a longer name for the chemistry involved (lithium-phlogiston vs. lithium-upsidasium cells?), and it's different chemistry for different voltages?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hank, at least a dozen different lithium battery chemistries have been commercialized and a number more demonstrated in the lab. Each chemistry has distinct characteristics including voltage which can range from 1.5 to over 4 volts. Check out the link below for some detailed insight. Search on each of the lithium chemistries in the chemistry parameter list of the search field.

http://catalogs.eacnet.com/catalog/search.form.php
I encourage others to bookmark this link as it is a good starting point for answering a number of battery questions.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There are a number of lithium battery chemistries. The voltage of the battery is mostly
dependent on the difference in electropotential between the cathode and the anode.

In primary lithiums there are Lithium-sulfur dioxide, lithium-thionyl chloride, Lithium-manganese,
and lithium-polycarbon monofloride. These all have slightly different voltages,
all above 3.

The 1.5 volt cell is based on the reaction between lithium and sulfur, but
the sulfur is stored as iron sulfide, or iron disulfide. Jerking the sulfur loose
from the iron takes some potential, so the cell is 1.5 volt.

For those interested, you might look at our battery chemistry tutorial
at http://www.powerstream.com/batteryfaq.html

We don't have the lithium-iron cell on it yet, but when I get some free
time . . .