I have recovered the following data from Google's cache manually.
Please post any errors and corrections in a new post below.
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The format is:
Date, time, old postcount#, poster;
post data
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I will try to fix the CPF links in the next 2 weeks or until I give up in frustration. Can not do that and verify with CPF down.
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11-20-2010 03:08 PM #5 liteheaded
zx7dave said:
Well the EVOLUX bulb came today. Nice design..nice craftsmanship...total cost was $58 shipped. The output is a nice white just on the cool side. I would judge the output to be closer to a 60-80 watt bulb not a 100 watt. It pulls right at the stated 13 watts. It is the best I have seen so far as LED bulbs for your home.
The places I really need super long-life bulbs are enclosed fixtures on the ceiling. Dragging out a ladder is a pain. Unfortunately, LED's are a no-no. They get too hot.
But I want to get one of these as an experiment. They are cooled not only by a passive heatsink, but by a tiny fan. Someone discussing this skeptically worried that the fan would eventually clog with dust, shortening the LED 50,000-hour lifetime. Have they been out longer than 5.7 years?
The output of a 100-w bulb is a huge 1,700 lumens. I've seen nothing on the market anywhere near that bright.
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb
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11-20-2010 04:52 PM #6 blasterman
It's around 1500-1600 by rough averages. Let's not get carried away.
Remember that incan bulbs are measured by a sphere in terms of lumens, so a directional bulb doesn't have to be as bright. The LED bulb only has to be 300-400 lumens and less than a 120 degree spread to match any given point the standard incan bulb is lighting up. That's why 300-400 lumens has been the un-official goal for LED retrofits and not 1700 lumens. The higher kelvin temp of the LED is also going to give it a benefit, especially if it's cool-white.
FYI, 1700 lumens is is not a problem with higher end LED PAR 38's.
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11-21-2010 08:17 AM #7 deadrx7conv
On average, I doubt that too many people have 100w incan's that are used frequently. Just about everybody I know doesn't have any bulbs over 60w and many have replaced with CFL.
I have the Zetalux 5000k and it puts both the Sylvania and Ecosmart equivalent to shame. Both the Sylvania and Ecosmart are ~3000k and just don't throw light or fill the room with enough light.
I wouldn't call the 'directional' of an LED a benefit. Most light fixture and lamp designs require that 'ambient all around' light to work reasonably well. Sure, you can aim an LED for better light, but nothing around it will be lit the same. Lamp + fixtures need design re-engineering to make LED retrofits useful.
LED still work best, IMO, in downward firing fixtures(that directional benefit). And, they're usually acceptable in multiple bulb(>3) fixtures when you already have gross excessive light and don't mind sacrificing output.
MFG ratings:
Zetalux 5k 450lm
Ecosmart 429lm
Sylvania 350lm
Zetalux 3k 350lm
The Zetalux 5k is definitely sacrificing a little CRI for output. 21lm doesn't sound like much, but it is definitely noticeable when comparing these 'like' bulbs. It is pretty close to being a 50-60w replacement if you don't mind the 5k color.
I also have an Evolux 13w and still haven't tried it in enough fixtures for comparison. It is definitely brighter but not sure if its up to 100w incan output. Might be a great choice for 60w replacement. And, should be acceptable for 75w replacement. But, so far I don't see it as a 100w replacement. And, since it has a small fan, its the 1st LED lamp stays cool.
http://www.earthled.com/evolux-led-light-bulb.html
I have a couple Geo-bulbs on order but they're most likely 50w-60w replacments.
I figure that in a few years, once CRI and LM/W move up, we'll start seeing those 100w replacements. For now, Ecosmart & Sylvania are best for 25w or 40w areas. And, comparing to CFL, LEDs fire up nice and bright instantly. So, if you have an area that the lights switch on/off several times a day for only a few minutes, you could use the LED over a slow to warm up CFL, as you probably don't ever see the full CFL output.
Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it.
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11-21-2010 10:10 AM #8 blasterman
I wouldn't call the 'directional' of an LED a benefit
I never said it was a benefit, simply the math involved and why a a 400lumen 120degree light source can appear just as bright as a 100watt light bulb.
Also, the intent of LED retrofits is some source of directional fixture, which includes recessed lighting which by far the most common type of fixture and the one application where standard incans or spiral CFLs don't work well at all. Even though some of these bulbs really aren't spec'd for an enclosed space we all know that's where they'll end up. Not sure why somebody would buy an Ecosmart and put a lampshade over it even though I prefer this approach over recessed {shrug}. Some of the advertisements showing the LED retrofits with lampshades over them look rather goofy.
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12-22-2010 04:45 PM #9 fnj
deadrx7conv said:
On average, I doubt that too many people have 100w incan's that are used frequently. Just about everybody I know doesn't have any bulbs over 60w and many have replaced with CFL.
Then my taste strongly differs from most people. Anything less than a 100 seems like a dim bulb to me. I would use 250's everywhere if it were practical. I would LOVE an LED solution that drew the same 100 watts as an incandescent but threw 4-5 times the light more or less omnidirectionally - but such would necessarily be gigantic. I would FAR prefer it to a 13 watt LED that struggles to match a 60 watt incandescent, and a wimpy 7 watt LED is just of no interest at all to me for room lighting.
