Luxeon emitter question

[Zvi]

Hi All,

Now that I know that not all emitters are born the same...
So, AFAIK emitters at the same wattage come in different brightness, which is indicated by different bin code. Where X is the highest, correct?
Reference document from Lumileds
I am assuming this is about 5w emitter.
I went to their product catalog. Interestingly enough it only mentions emitter with 120 lumen flux and 100K lifetime, but no bin codes, nothing about higher, 249.6 lm flux. Besides as I understood from reading CPF 5w Luxeons have somewhere 500-1000 hour life.
So, what am I missing? The emitter in catalog is not the one I think? What do I do if I want to buy 5w luxeon X? Am I out of luck?

 

[ufokillerz]

the current 5W luxeons have a 1000 hr life. a 10000 hr life 5W is set to come out later this year.
The X aren't quite available? the highest i've seen is a W.

 

[Zvi]

In another thread expected lifetime of new 5w emitters was 50K.
If you check the document I've linked in my post above you'll find X.
The problem is that they(Lumiled) don't mention any of that in their catalog section for 5w emitter, simply say that it's 120lm...

 

[Zvi]

Anybody? Or that's classified info /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif?

 

[shiftd]

Well, let me try to answer this in the last wrong way. Perhaps they put 50K as expected, but nobody can prove it. 10K or 50K don't make that much different because by the time you reach that 10K or 50K limit, a lot of more powerful light will come out. And also, a lot of 5 watter experienced a premature dead because of overdriving, crazy experiment, other error, etc etc. Thus, although you can expect 10K, no luxeon to date can reach that age, currently anyway.
And on X binned, I think Ufokillerz said it correctly. Currently, there is no X binned 5 watter to date. For the 120 lumens, I checked the bin document and found out that it puts out at most ~250 lumens.

hope this helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[FalconFX]

A call to Future Electronics is usually the best way to "coerce" a better bin code out of your order. An X bin 5W LS is definately the brightest right now, at 250 lumens, but it's so rare, it's almost unaccounted for. W2 is bright enough...

The hour ratings are probably conservative, to say the least. It's not a bad thing, because obviously you don't want to guarantee something you're not sure of, and any engineer will tell you there's some sort of "give" or "factors" that can dramatically reduce or increase life. I think Lumileds nominated 1000 hours for the 5Watters based on factors of reliability and the relatively new and volatile technology going into producing the 5 Watters. You can tell, from the Luxeon lottery, that LS production is still not efficient nor desirable in yields, and thus the MTBF rating may warrant lower numbers as opposed to the more mature 1 Watters...

 

[Doug Owen]

Luxeon emitter lifetimes

Being semiconductors, the factors the determine useful life span in LEDs are well understood and routinely studied. Considerable serious science (some where I work in fact) is expended in the area. Lifetime in such devices (indeed for light bulbs as well) is not done by running a bunch until they fail in normal conditions, it's a matter of statistics and data. Accelerated aging can be (and often is) used. Ironically, this often involves overdriving them and forcing them to run at elevated temperatures (the very things some of us are quite fond of doing). But always the lifetime number comes from analysis of the failure mode(s). For instance in lamps, it's not when the filament opens, but when a given amount of it has evaporated (the bulb itself typically is still ''good"). In semiconductors it has to do with dislocations, solid state diffusions, migrations and the other failure modes.

Such claims of course effect sales and liability for the maker. This, one would think, makes them quote numbers high enough to attract customers, but low enough to avoid problems with expectations.

But he doesn't have to make a batch of LEDs and run them for 10,000 hours to see how many died.......

Doug Owen

 

[Zvi]

[ QUOTE ]
shiftd said:
... And on X binned, I think Ufokillerz said it correctly. Currently, there is no X binned 5 watter to date. For the 120 lumens, I checked the bin document and found out that it puts out at most ~250 lumens.
hope this helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
It does help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Though I think X bin does exist, at least there is a code for it and ~250Lm output. Hopefully one can order it sometimes in the near future...

 

[MR Bulk]

There is indeed an X-bin 5W. Properly driven, it provides output identical to a UK Light Cannon. And this is on just three "D" batteries, through an unbelievably efficient circuit board.

As televangelists say, "Ah have seen the light!"

 

[shiftd]

Heck, Mr Bulk. Where did you get the X-binnedd 5 watter?
Can I have some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

"Where is the light?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Zvi]

Can those be ordered somehow?

 

[MR Bulk]

shiftd and Zvi,

I'm sorry but the "X" is not mine, and no, I do not think they are available to the general public. "W's" are the best I've handled and sold in mods, and believe me, they were NOT from Future. And remember, not all Bin Codes are gospel. I've even had "U's" that were as bright or brighter than "W's"...

 

[Zvi]

Totaly unfair /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Well, there is hope that once they come up with Y, Z, ZZZ, etc then surplus Xs will be sold to the general public at bargain prices huh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Except most likely I'll want ZZZZ badly at that time...

 

[FalconFX]

By that time, you'll probably have your 10 watters... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[LEDmodMan]

[ QUOTE ]
FalconFX said:
A call to Future Electronics is usually the best way to "coerce" a better bin code out of your order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so! I coerced and coerced and used all the tricks and charm I could muster ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif ), and still got the answer that I would get what I would get. Future currently doesn't list the 5W by bin code (or care about 5W bin codes), so unless you know someone on the inside of that new england warehouse that fills the orders... Hey that place isn't too far (relatively speaking) from where I'm at now, is it? Maybe I could go bang on some large doors? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif