M2 waterproofness and M2N

[John N]

Can someone confirm if Surefire actually claims the M2 is waterproof these days? I don't see them claim it on their web site.

Do they still make the M2N? If so, how does one order one? I just checked with my reseller and they indicate the M2N doesn't appear in their Surefire Dist Manual.

-john

 

[tsg68]

In the 2003 Surefire catalog it states in the section on the Special Operations Series (which includes the M2). In response to the needs of professionals "We answered with optically coated, tempered Pyrex windows, waterproof double O-ring seals, high-grade aluminum alloys, and a MilSpec Type III hard-anodized finish so tough that it can be used to cut through the bodies of lesser flashlights."

I would call that a statement of waterproof qualities, but it is the only statement to that effect that I could find. The website says nothing other than "Pyrex lens for increased water resistance".

According to Al you can special order any light in the aluminum series to be N certified and I believe that by the Dept.of Navy standards in order to recieve the certification, it must be tested to the specified depth (which I believe is 30 meters, and with Surefire quite possibly beyond), and passed so I would imagine it would be much more expensive to custom order than finding one as surplus of a contract run. You could email them to see if they have any around. I'm sure Al would be kind enough to provide you with the right contact.

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[lhz]

I dropped mine into the bottom of a pool and it worked just fine. Just be sure you remove all the o-rings and wipe off the excess silicon grease(mine had a lot of silicon grease when I received it) before you subject it to water.

But if you want a light for underwater use, go with the UK series. They outperform surefire on so many levels for underwater use, because that's what they were designed for.

 

[SUREFARC]

Ofcourse the M2 is waterproof especially the lastest batch. According to Al, the seal has been improved. And it's been said the M3 is the most waterproof of all surefires.

 

[tsg68]

I believe that regular factory M2's do not have to be individually tested and most likely aren't but a light that recieves an N rating under Dept. of Navy specifications must have passed an individual submersion test of that particular flashlight to a simulated depth of 30 meters (I think it's a pressurized tank but I wouldn't know for sure) in order to be certified. this is what makes them more expensive and it also is a guarrantee to the government that the light they are purchasing has already been subjected to testing to their specifications and is certified for use immediately and without further preparation or possibility of failure.

Doesn't matter too much to you or I but is probably a big deal to the Navy frogman who is issued one or the crewman who needs to search a partially flooded compartment aboard a damaged vessel for injured sailors.

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Size15's]

I believe for Navy Frogman the depth rating is much deeper than "N". From my understanding, it is unusual that SureFires are used underwater for illumination - being transported or moved through water as WeaponLights and carried as handheld "Tactical Illumination Tools". SureFire has the best in the industry and more Spec Op guys want them than anything else.

SureFire does not make a special "N" version. All SureFire which can be pressure tested are designed to be waterproof.
Obviously o-ring care and lubing is very important.

When the Shock Isolated M2 first came out I knew that many were taken underwater without being tested. Feedback to SureFire gave them confidence that the M2 was waterproof.
Every now and then there are flashlights (of any brand) that leak when they are not supposed to. It is vital that this is fedback to the design teams so any improvements needed can be made.

The M2 and other SureFires have been through many design modifications and tweeks. Whilst SureFire have dropped the "waterproof" claim from advertising they are confident that the M2 now is more likely to be waterproof now then in the past.

Some SureFires are highly water-resistant. "Waterproof" indicates to me that a depth rating should also be given. (I suppose that Bulletproof jackets are also rated?)
Currently an individual SureFire product is not waterproof unless it has been rated which means specifically and individually tested.

The testing equipment takes the products to far beyond the rated depth to ensure a level of confidence and overage. At SureFire I saw the test equipment. Out the back of SureFire there is a manhole covering a 300 metre deep saltwater filled pipe. SureFires are lowered in a wire mesh bucket.
There were a few pressure tanks but you know how old fashioned SureFire are - they like to do things properly.

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tsg68]

Nice to know that Surefire depth rates them to actual depth and not just simulated depth.

I know the Navy doesn't use Surefires for dive operations, I believe they currently use Tektites for dive operations. But I believe when SEALS deploy on combat swims and/or use closed breathing or recirculating gear they are generally required to remain above a depth of 25 meters although I hear some are forced to push these depths such as happened to two SEALS during an operation in Panama when they were forced to cross a shipping lane after their linkup for exfil got screwed, and had to force themselves to the bottom (50 meters) of the channel to avoid a tanker passing through. But I bet it's still nice to know you could use a Surefire as backup. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I believe a Navy sailor used his Surefire to search the damaged and flooded compartments of the USS Cole for injured and dead immediately after the devastating terrorist bombing. I think he may have even sent the testimonial to Surefire.

Al what are the 6PN's being sold by Texas Tactical?

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Josh]

Yup, right on SF's site.

 

[John N]

Thanks for the info. Al, any idea why the distributer didn't find the "n" units listed in the distributers catalog? Any idea how much more the "n" units cost?

I guess this doesn't matter much since I've already ordered an M2, but it seems it would have been kind of cool to get the M2N .

Are the "n" units marked/labeled differently?

Thanks!

-john

 

[tkl]

iirc the only difference between the two is testing. if you search it's been hashed out here before.

i wouldn't blow the extra cash, just make sure your o-rings are lubed properly. but they're still not a dive light, other brands will fare better to repeated diving.

 

[Size15's]

I was joking when I wrote about the water pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif - Pressure tanks are used.

I suppose that for an item to be in the distributers catalog enough units would need to be provided for retail to make it viable.
How much more to N models cost? It depends on the model but ~$50 I guess for handheld flashlights.

I believe it was Dan who said that the 6PN is marked on the box and has a small paper explaining what it was rated to. Not on the flashlight itself. Also he mentioned the lube being more/different. This is reasonable since proper o-ring care makes all the difference.

Al

 

[John N]

Ok, thanks all.

TKL, I wasn't looking for a dive light. This is my EDC. I have read the threads about the "n" light, and that is why I was looking for them. I wanted the "n" more for peace of mind - I know the light doesn't leak (if maintained). The rub came in when I actually tried to order one and it didn't appear in their catalog.

In the end, I relented and just when ahead with the "standard" M2. However, I'm still curious.

-john

 

[tsg68]

You had me going with the depth pipe story Al, I was thinking, "Man, they don't mess around!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[K-T]

Last time I checked on the price for the N-rated lights it was 60$ extra no matter what light, but this info is quite old so they might have changed that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Size15's]

The price of the 6PN compared to the 6P is only about $30 extra I thought?

WeaponLights waterproof to depth with stiffened switches can be far more expensive then $50. The UxxyyBH is about the most expensive waterproof switch option I believe. You'd have to really need" that switch!

Al

 

[K-T]

Ok, I might have to clarify my post a little bit. I meant to get one of the lithium lights (weapon lights excluded since they were not mentioned in the mail I wrote to SF CS those days) certified it would be 60$ extra. I believe that the 6PN is cheaper because they did a whole batch of those instead of picking one light, testing it, approve it and send it to you.

 

[Size15's]

K-T I think you have it there - When SureFire had the time to do individual N testing for specific requested model they would charge $xx whereas 'stock' N options would have a different pricing structure.

Al