M60 beam

[u238]

I recently picked up an Elzetta ZFL-M60, and it is quite impressive. The build quality is absolutely top-notch. However, I am not as impressed with the M60 led that it is built around. It has a large, off center dim ring around the hotspot that I have not seen in any beamshots. Here are a couple of close up beamshots to illustrate my point:

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq221/boomslangX64/light/006.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq221/boomslangX64/light/007.jpg

There are many concentric rings, but I knew they would be present and they don't bother me. The beam is very good and the overall performance very impressive, but I am still bothered by the non-concentric, dim ring. Am I being too particular? I would appreciate input from other m60 owners, as I've never seen this issue before.

 

[jaundice]

If you're not satisfied, drop an email to Malkoff and see what they say. They have an excellent reputation, and although this is a small issue, they're more than likely to make it right.

Good luck!

-John

 

[DimeRazorback]

Mine all have similar rings.

You will not notice it in actual use.

 

[Dude Dudeson]

Mine all have similar rings.

You will not notice it in actual use.

+1. I have the exact opposite of this guy, a brighter spot that's kind of moon shaped and off the center.

Irritated me a bit the first time I tried the dropin, which just happened to be on a white wall to compare it to another light.

I've never, ever noticed it in actual use.

 

[kyhunter1]

A malkoff is not cheap, and should not have flaws like a off center emmitter. You expect that kind of thing with the cheap stuff. Malkoff's stuff is still several steps above others in terms of overall quality. Sell the M60 drop in on the market place at a reasonable price, and order a new one from Gene and request a nice beam.

 

[slappomatt]

Thats an interesting beam shot. I just bought a C2 for use with a M30W as soon as I can find one. Now I'm not so sure. my 4seven lights don't look like that....

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I got my first m60 for x-mas yesterday. My hot spot is nice and round on one side and fades to a blur on the other. I was sad, then the sun set, and :grin2:. It is still noticeable in use, but it's bright.

 

[DimeRazorback]

Optic are near impossible to get a "perfect beam" out of... slappo, 4sevens uses reflectors which when strippled (like theirs are) create very smooth beams. Optics 'show' every ring that is within the plastic of the optic itself per se.

I think some people use their lights on white walls far too much...

 

[Niconical]

I think some people use their lights on white walls far too much...

Indeed.

Any patterns, rings, or whatever in that Malkoff beamshot don't indicate a flaw. An off center emmiter is not a flaw. A flaw would be if you shake it and it flickers, or is not as bright as it should be, that kind of thing. Yes, there is course the old argument of "I paid for quality, I expect quality", but IMO, you got quality. The Malkoff works, and based on reputation will continue to work for a long time to come, that's quality. The shape and/or pattern the beam happens to make is a variation, but not an indicator of quality.

There are 2 sides to our flashaholism, tools and collectibles. Both are equally valid, but it goes wrong if you try to apply the collectibles way of thinking to what is no more than a tool. For some lights, yes, question the form, but a tool like a Malkoff, question the function, and if that's all good, then the tool works and can be relied on.

 

[copperfox]

Indeed.

Any patterns, rings, or whatever in that Malkoff beamshot don't indicate a flaw. An off center emmiter is not a flaw. A flaw would be if you shake it and it flickers, or is not as bright as it should be, that kind of thing. Yes, there is course the old argument of "I paid for quality, I expect quality", but IMO, you got quality. The Malkoff works, and based on reputation will continue to work for a long time to come, that's quality. The shape and/or pattern the beam happens to make is a variation, but not an indicator of quality.

There are 2 sides to our flashaholism, tools and collectibles. Both are equally valid, but it goes wrong if you try to apply the collectibles way of thinking to what is no more than a tool. For some lights, yes, question the form, but a tool like a Malkoff, question the function, and if that's all good, then the tool works and can be relied on.

Yes, the Malkoff dropins for Surefires have great BUILD quality, but the current M60 and M30 have less than optimal beam quality. Nobody will argue that the machining, choice of driver, or black potting "goop" are well built and of good quality. But as the OP correctly pointed out, the beam is not perfect. Keep in mind that build quality, while vital, is a secondary function of a tool or complex machine. A good build quality will only ever allow it to fulfill its primary function without interruption. A flashlight's primary function is to light up an object/area without introducing distracting beam artifacts. Anyone is entitled to be less than satisfied with a beam with artifacts, no matter how minor. Don't marginalize people by calling them white wall hunters. It's a misnomer to imply that everyday work tools cannot be collectible quality in all respects.

 

[Niconical]

I don't have any problem with the white wall hunting, I do it myself, to compare, test, and let's be honest, just to play, although it's normally white ceiling hunting as I'd be laying on the couch at the time :)

It's true of course that build quality doesn't help if the tool can't actually do what it was meant to do, but in this case I think that the Malkoff beam pictured above can fully do the job it was meant to do. It's just a question of where do you draw the line. After all, the "perfect beam" that we seek, will never actually be perfect. Examine it closely enough and you'll always find something "wrong". So the line as it were would be on one side, beams that don't do the job, on the other side beams that do the job. Where we each draw that line will be different for each of us, but IMO that Malkoff is well into the "does the job just fine" side.

 

[Brasso]

I was spoiled by McGizmo. No other light produces the perfect beam like one of his lights. My Malkoffs also have the rings, but they work just fine.

The beam on my ElektoLumen light is also what I would call flawless.

 

[dougie]

:oops:'Perfection is easily sought and seldom found'

 

[45cal4life]

My M60 in a Surefire Z2 doesn't appear to have the dark ring / moon around the hotspot. Maybe I'm lucky:shrug:

 

[Sgt. LED]

I've had funky and flawless Malkoff beams.

They all made nice and efficient light when I needed it with great heatsinking and super build quality. I guess for me those qualities make up for the few funky beam ones.

:wave:

 

[gnlw]

I have two M60s. Neither have a perfect beam when I shine it on a wall, and I too was initially concerned when I first got them. However, during actual usage, I don't notice the beam imperfections at all, and they both have the perfect blend of throw and spill. They are now my most often used lights by far. If you go ahead and put them into use, I think you will be very satisfied.

 

[u238]

Thank you for the replies. I didn't expect so much input. It is reassuring that this is a typical occurrence. I have no qualms about the performance or durability of this light. While I would prefer a "perfect" beam, this light is placed solidly in the tool category and isn't meant to be a collectible or be treated delicately. Everyone who has mentioned that the flaws in the beam are not visible in regular use are correct. Just last night I used the light to find an unwelcome cat outside. At over 100 feet the beam illuminated everything like it was daylight, and the spill gave enough light to clearly see everything in probably a 100 foot area. Compared to the 6Pled, my other high end light, the beam is not nearly as nice looking, but the function is far superior, not only in overall brightness but shape of the beam and spill.

 

[Policetacteam]

Yes, the Malkoff dropins for Surefires have great BUILD quality, but the current M60 and M30 have less than optimal beam quality. Nobody will argue that the machining, choice of driver, or black potting "goop" are well built and of good quality. But as the OP correctly pointed out, the beam is not perfect. Keep in mind that build quality, while vital, is a secondary function of a tool or complex machine. A good build quality will only ever allow it to fulfill its primary function without interruption. A flashlight's primary function is to light up an object/area without introducing distracting beam artifacts. Anyone is entitled to be less than satisfied with a beam with artifacts, no matter how minor. Don't marginalize people by calling them white wall hunters. It's a misnomer to imply that everyday work tools cannot be collectible quality in all respects.

I would have to agree with Copperfox. I think the build quality is top notch but the quality of the actual beam quality is not what it used to be. My old M60's were prefect not only in build quality, material, but the beam quality was perfect. Now I will agree that most of us, myself included, do alot of "white walling" but it allows us to compare one drop-in from the next. My last 3 newer M60's all share the same hollow hot spot and that has not impressed me! Gene's customer service is the best in the industry which is why he is so successful. But each standard M60 I get still has a hollow hot spots instead of a blinding hot spot. If I'm paying $50+ dollars I expect perfection! My last Lumens Factory drop-in (D26 high output) looks awesome. NO...I'm not a fan of sending my money off to China but unfortunately if they are making a drop-in for half the price that looks nicer I will have to go with a different drop-in manufacturer. Money is tight and my drop-ins are not only "white wallers" but they are also work lights which mean some are weapon lights and others are on my duty belt. They must work properly. I hope the issue of rings and hollow hot spots can be fixed because I would gladly spend more money with a solid American business than send it off over seas!

 

[zven]

My M60 has a similar dark ring around the hotspot, though it's less pronounced. My main beef with my M60 is the stinking dark spot at the center of the hotspot. White wall hunting, this dark spot is dreadfully obvious, and rather painful to look at. During actual use, though, it's much less noticeable. I can still see it in most situations, but it's not so bad as to detract from the overall profile and utility of the beam.

In the end, I'd have to agree with the above comment that so long as the light's purpose is being fulfilled, then there's a certain allowance for defects such as dark spots or rings. The Malkoff drop-ins have features that are pretty rare elsewhere (e.g., beam profile, heatsinking), and they get the job done. So long as those remain consistent, perfection in beam quality isn't a priority.

However, with all of that said, the dark spot in my M60's hotspot has made me MUCH more hesitant to purchase other M60-series drop-ins. Again, I don't expect perfection, and think there's an allowance for certain defects when overall functionality is top-notch. But if the M60's hotspots were consistently solid, and dark rings like the above were rare, Mr. Malkoff would likely see a good deal more business from me.

 

[Owen]

I've never seen a perfect beam from an optic. Not Carclos, Fraens, Crees, or whatever SF's(proprietary?) optics are, none of them.
After almost a year of use, and trying a bunch of other lights in the meantime, my M60W is still my favorite for work, and the imperfect hotspot doesn't affect its practical use. You'd have to be blind not to notice it, though. Kind of reminiscent of the donut hole that was typical for 5w emitters with smaller reflectors, which is how another forumite I lent it to expressed his opinion of the beam. I much prefer the optic's beam to a bright spot that's sharply delineated from the spill, though, and will doubtless continue to use it for the forseeable future(or at least until a version of the M60W with the same brightness and a big increase in runtime becomes available).