Motorcycle Lighting Options

[Optical Inferno]

So my cousin goes and buys a crotch rocket (on a whim...don't ask) and now wants to increase his conspicuity. He remembers that I'm in the LED lighting industry (EVL) but forgets that I'm not in the total knowledge of motorcycle lighting.

He want's reverse mounted red LED lights connected to his brake lights and a white ground effect kit. My first thought is ILLEGAL...

Can someone confirm for me that this (or a portion there of) is in fact illegal so I can try and get it out of his head.

Location= Ontario, Canada

Thanks for the help

 

[Thr3Evo]

You are correct in your assumption of legality.
And even if local laws may bend in the corresponding area, the cpf rules forbid such actions and topics, therefore no helpful answer will be provided and more than likely your thread will be terminated.

 

[DIWdiver]

Totally with you on brake lights. Mustn't screw with intensity and/or beam pattern of brake lights; let the manufacturers with big bucks do that. But ground effect - can you work within some limits, or is everything pretty much illegal?

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I've never, ever seen ” ground effect” lights and identified a vehicle from them. A bright light isn't any safer to its driver until I recognize that it's a motorcycle. A hypothetical ”bright enough” ground effect light is far too bright under other conditions anyway. If they worked, I bet Honda or Kawasaki would use them and smear the others for not doing so.

 

[Optical Inferno]

Thanks guys... I am well aware of the rules for the forum but just needed the confirmation. As I said, I will try and convince him that it is illegal and will not make any recommendations.

Scheinmann can close the thread if he wants as I realize that it is an illegal topic now. Just needed the confirmation as I'm less aware of the laws regarding these such lamps and more familiar with EVL lighting.

Thanks Again
OP

 

[-Virgil-]

I don't know that "ground effect" lights are necessarily illegal or dangerous. I can't come up with an objection to this, for example, though it's designed for bicycles and not motorcycles. It's hard to imagine lamps pointed at the ground and intended to increase the conspicuity of the motorcycle being legally frowned upon as long as they adhere to the color requirements (white to the front, red to the rear, amber to the front-sides, red to the rear-sides).

 

[Thr3Evo]

I don't know that "ground effect" lights are necessarily illegal or dangerous. I can't come up with an objection to this, for example, though it's designed for bicycles and not motorcycles. It's hard to imagine lamps pointed at the ground and intended to increase the conspicuity of the motorcycle being legally frowned upon as long as they adhere to the color requirements (white to the front, red to the rear, amber to the front-sides, red to the rear-sides).

Any type of "ground effect kits" are highly distracting to other riders/drivers. That is in the same category as distracted driving and a ticketable offense. I should know, having tried that on my car when I was younger and also as a current, avid, motorcycle rider.

And I'm pretty certain that no law enforcement will ever support the idea of non emergency, spinning/rotating any kind of lights on motorized road legal vehicles.

 

[-Virgil-]

Any type of "ground effect kits" are highly distracting to other riders/drivers.

I don't agree with this absolute statement.

That is in the same category as distracted driving and a ticketable offense.

It sounds like you got in trouble for something you installed on your car when you were a kid. That doesn't necessarily generalize to any/all such lamps on any/all vehicles in any/all jurisdictions.

And I'm pretty certain that no law enforcement will ever support the idea of non emergency, spinning/rotating any kind of lights on motorized road legal vehicles.

Read the link more carefully -- the linked lights do not have any kind of a spinning appearance. In use they appear as steady-burning white front and red rear lights.

 

[Optical Inferno]

Any type of "ground effect kits" are highly distracting to other riders/drivers. That is in the same category as distracted driving and a ticketable offense. I should know, having tried that on my car when I was younger and also as a current, avid, motorcycle rider.

And I'm pretty certain that no law enforcement will ever support the idea of non emergency, spinning/rotating any kind of lights on motorized road legal vehicles.

Spinning/Roatating?? Where did you get that idea? I design for the EVL market. I'm not recommending an EVL light for this application. I'm also not going to conjure up something in my garage as well. No worries there.

I'm using a contact at the Ontario Provincial Police to try and answer this question too. Hopefully they have an idea.

Interesting link too Scheinmann. I thought about something similar a while back but never went through with the design. May need to look at it again for a different application.

 

[Thr3Evo]

I don't agree with this absolute statement.

You don't have to, in part or at all, the issue as posted was legality. The DMV states that while a vehicle is in move no other lights than(especially not certified) the ones installed or provided by the factory for that specific model should be used...period(this statement does not apply to emergency situations).

It sounds like you got in trouble for something you installed on your car when you were a kid. That doesn't necessarily generalize to any/all such lamps on any/all vehicles in any/all jurisdictions.

It does for the original posted question since it was the exact same scenario except on 4 wheels rather than two ... no different to the law tho.

Read the link more carefully -- the linked lights do not have any kind of a spinning appearance. In use they appear as steady-burning white front and red rear lights.

Copied and pasted directly from that site you linked to: "The arcs of light are formed by LEDs programmed to detect your speed and blink on as they pass the front or rear of the bicycle." And just from watching the video I can see the lights flickering as they try to only keep the front or rear on only. It is not a constant on output as a headlight would provide. Granted it may look like it to the rider but they are not the only ones on the road.

I don't even know why this discussion is being had. With all due respect you are a moderator and this wonderful place has rules which deny any discussion of topics with illegal tendencies.

 

[-Virgil-]

The DMV states that while a vehicle is in move no other lights than(especially not certified) the ones installed or provided by the factory for that specific model should be used...period

I'm rather closely familiar with the lighting regulations in the various US states and Canadian provinces (among other types of jurisdictions around the world) and I can't think of any that prohibit any/all non-factory-installed lighting. I believe you're probably mistaken.

"The arcs of light are formed by LEDs programmed to detect your speed and blink on as they pass the front or rear of the bicycle."

They "blink" in that they turn on as they enter a certain arc sector of the wheel's rotation, then turn off as they exit that arc sector. The effect on the road, to the observer, is of a steady-burning light. Moreover, motorcycle headlamp "modulators" are legal, which doesn't support your position.

And just from watching the video I can see the lights flickering

That's an effect of the camera frame rate. Spend some time on YouTube looking at road tests of cars with LED tail lamps or daytime running lamps -- you'll see very prominent strobing that is only visible in videos, not in real life.

I don't even know why this discussion is being had.

At the moment it's being had to clear up some misconceptions you appear to hold.

this wonderful place has rules which deny any discussion of topics with illegal tendencies.

It's not at all clear that the linked product is illegal or unsafe. If your opinions were based on facts rather than guesses and assumptions, you might have a better case, but since the facts don't support your opinion, I'm afraid you do not.

It's up to you to decide whether to replace your guesses and assumptions with facts. I don't think you and I have any further need for debate on this subtopic. The thread will remain open for now.

 

[Optical Inferno]

Again...thanks for the advice guys. I was able to convince him to use a different method that is totally legal and doesn't involve any lighting. As an avid user of the forum and someone who designs for the EVL market, I appreciate the time and effort you experts put in to help those of us who need a little direction. Until next time...