New Rebel Plus LEDs released

[slebans]

15% increase in efficacy, min 80 CRI on all color temperatures, lowest Vf in industry.

Press Release:
http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/news/id202/PR187.pdf

Product Page:
http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel-plus#datasheets

 

[jirik_cz]

Released only with warmer tints, CCT from 2700K-5000K. 110lm/W at 85°C sounds like a decent efficacy for this CCR and chip temperature.

 

[bose301s]

Released only with warmer tints, CCT from 2700K-5000K. 110lm/W at 85°C sounds like a decent efficacy for this CCR and chip temperature.

It's not, the Warm White XP-G2 does 133lm/w at 85c

 

[SemiMan]

It's not, the Warm White XP-G2 does 133lm/w at 85c

That is interesting .... in a released part? I have not seen anything over 115/watt from Cree in an actually released part. Even in cool white, you are looking at R5 bin as the best which is only mid 140s at 85C. Add in the Rebels are 80+ CRI. Don't think the XPG2 at 85C and 80+ CRI is anywhere near that in an actually purchasable part.

Semiman

 

[AnAppleSnail]

That is interesting .... in a released part? I have not seen anything over 115/watt from Cree in an actually released part. Even in cool white, you are looking at R5 bin as the best which is only mid 140s at 85C. Add in the Rebels are 80+ CRI. Don't think the XPG2 at 85C and 80+ CRI is anywhere near that in an actually purchasable part.

Semiman

Well, the XP-G2 datasheet says: R4 is "up to" 139 lumen at 350 mA at 85C. Its "nominal' forward voltage at 350 mA is 2.8V. If we have an R5, as Cutter.Com.Au does, it will presumably be higher in output than this R4. So we have 139 lumen at (0.35A x 2.8V) = 0.98W. That gives about 140 lm/W. You'll have to try ordering from Cutter to see if they ship them, though. This is Cool White, 70 CRI.

tl;dr, XP-G2 R5 should be at least 139 lumen at 350 mA at 85C (70CRI Cool White), unless Cree lies on their datasheets.

If we apply the same to the claimed R3 bin, you're looking at 114 lm/W minimum at 80CRI and warm white.

tl;dr2, I don't know if they sell this LED yet. You are right.


Edit: Conclusion: The Luxeon is just about on par with the best LED in the Cree datasheet for efficiency and CRI. Tint distribution remains to be seen.

 

[MichaelW]

In the DS107, I have to commend Lumileds for showing the SPD of the different CCT outputs.
(and see how un-neutral 5000K is relative to 4000K)

How large is the die? The dome on the xp-e2/xp-g2 is larger than 2.5mm, right?

 

[bose301s]

From the XP-G2 Press Release:

Built on the revolutionary SC³ Technology Platform, the XP-G2 LEDs combine high light output, reliability and efficacy to deliver up to 151 lumens per watt at 350 mA, 85°C or 165 lumens per watt at 350mA, 25°C in cool white (both at 6000K). In warm white (3000K), the XP-G2 LED delivers up to 133 lumens per watt at 350 mA, 85°C or 145 lumens per watt at 350mA, 25°C.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

From the XP-G2 Press Release:

"Up to" is a funny word. I do not know if ANY binned LEDs are at the top of the top bin.

 

[bose301s]

"Up to" is a funny word. I do not know if ANY binned LEDs are at the top of the top bin.

Then by that same token wouldn't that mean the the Philips LEDs are also performing less than they claim?

 

[SemiMan]

Then by that same token wouldn't that mean the the Philips LEDs are also performing less than they claim?

Yes, but that was not the claim you were making. Both products are competitive but one needs to look beyond just color temp at guaranteed CRI, color binning, etc. I use both Rebels and XPG so no loyalty. I distrust all suppliers .... to a degree :-)

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Then by that same token wouldn't that mean the the Philips LEDs are also performing less than they claim?

It depends. You're quoting a press release quoting Cree's bins, for cold-white 70 CRI lighting. The Cree bins are "Up to" the level stated on the bin lid. To compensate for this, I noted the minimum value for their 80CRI LEDs (Which is the 'maximum' value of the next bin down) since they were up for discussion. I haven't checked to see if the Philips data (for 80CRI, higher CCT) was from actual testing or is, similarly, just a bin maximum.

 

[bose301s]

It depends. You're quoting a press release quoting Cree's bins, for cold-white 70 CRI lighting. The Cree bins are "Up to" the level stated on the bin lid. To compensate for this, I noted the minimum value for their 80CRI LEDs (Which is the 'maximum' value of the next bin down) since they were up for discussion. I haven't checked to see if the Philips data (for 80CRI, higher CCT) was from actual testing or is, similarly, just a bin maximum.

Typical CRI of the WW XP-G2 is 80, and the 80 CRI min does go up to 4300k at least, I know not 5k but better than the WW. I do wish we would work on our phosphors to get some 90 CRI 4000k+ CCT LEDs.

 

[croled]

Luxeon rebel plus is a 1mm2 led,not 2mm2,so comparisons with xp-g(2) are not valid.

 

[baterija]

Luxeon rebel plus is a 1mm2 led,not 2mm2,so comparisons with xp-g(2) are not valid.

Right. We can't be comparing die sizes. We certainly shouldn't move from the lm/W discussion to a lm/mm2 discussion to see if the surface brightness of this means thrower.

 

[IMSabbel]

Luxeon rebel plus is a 1mm2 led,not 2mm2,so comparisons with xp-g(2) are not valid.

Thats acutally a very good point. The die-size creep at Cree can often be overlooked...
On the other hand, those bin ranged of the rebel plus are awefully wide, makeing the guaranteed efficancy only just below 100lm/W for the 5000k version

 

[croled]

On the other hand, those bin ranged of the rebel plus are awefully wide, makeing the guaranteed efficancy only just below 100lm/W for the 5000k version

Because of lack of details in rebels' datasheets,rebels actually look worse than they really are. For example,this rebel plus 5000K led is specified as minimum 95lumen, typical 106lumen,and 110lm/w @350ma. But, these values are average values of ALL bins.For example,if cree specifies xp-g led like philips does for rebels,then xp-g coolwhite would be defined something like: minimum flux:122lm, typical flux 135lm. Minimum value is worst of worst you can get,and typical value is the most common value,and that is "middle" bin.
On page 15 of datasheet ds107 there are bin letters from A to F.5000K version is minimum 95lm,so the lowest bin for this led is C (95-105lm),and 5000K version should be available D and E bin,maybe even in F bin in smaller quantities for now,i don't know, it's just an assumption. E bin has min. 115lm,max 125lm @350ma,so minimum eff. for this bin is around min120lm/W@350ma@85C, 1mm2,5000K,min80CRI.Numbers look much better now,aren't? F bin would be even better.But,you must buy min. 1000pcs if you want specific bin.