Newbie needs help to answer some questions!!

[mba1964]

Hello,
I found this website a few days ago and it is GREAT but also a bit overwelming for for a beginner like myself! I recently had my boss get me a Streamlight TL-2 for use at work. I had never owned any type of "High end" flashlight until this and I think I may be getting the same bug as you all have...the dreaded "Flashaholic" syndrome !! I use this light at work and am just amazed at what it does. I threw away all my old 2D grandpa flashlights in the recycle container!!!
Now, to get to my questions....I would like to get a headlight for deer hunting. It will be used to help me find my treestand before and after sunrise and also for tracking a bloodtrail in the pitch black, cold, wet, and sometimes snowy Ohio woods. I have spent several hours reading the threads posted here. I have pretty much made up my mind that I would like the PT Apex or the PT Apex Pro. My biggest concern deals with a few threads that suggest waiting until the new upgraded PT Apex models come out with the "Rebel" upgrade since they will be much brighter and still have comparable battery life. OK...what exactly is the "rebel" upgrade? How will I know when they have the new models available and how do I tell the difference between the "old" model with out the "rebel" or the new with it when I decide to purchase it either locally in a store or on the net?
How about the battery options between the 2 models? Say I had the Apex with 4 AA Li batteries vs. the Apex Pro with 2 CR123 Li...what are the pros and cons concerning battery life? I looked on the Battery Junction web site and the Energizer AA Li 4 pack is $7.79 required for the Apex while the Energizer CR123A is $2.86 for the 2 required for the Apex Pro. Does the Apex 4AA run that much longer/better/brighter to justify almost 3x the cost for batteries? This post is getting a little long and I will just shut up and listen to what you pros have for advice! :green:
Thanks so much in advance for your replies...I really do appreciate the help!
P.S. the cheapest I hve found these 2 models was at a site called "discountsmarket.com" for $53.53 for the Apex and $56.69 for the Apex Pro. Any other suggestions? Thanks again!

 

[PhantomPhoton]

First go back and grab those old grandpa lights out of the recycle container! Especially if you're talking about those old things with metal bodies. If you do indeed get hooked you'll soon find that you can turn those innocent looking things into fire breathing monsters with some modifications. :naughty:

Anyway, the Apex should serve you well. Its about as good as a headlamp gets for the most part.
Let's do a bit of math and take a look at how much energy is actually in both setups. Apologies if I'm telling you things that you already know, just trying to be thorough.

1 CR 123 Cell is rated at approx 1400 milli-amp hours (mAh) and operates at ~3v. Therefore 3x1400 [volts x amps = watts] gives us 4.2 watt hours.
2 CR123's have approx 8.4 watt hours to give.

1 L91 AA cell is rated at about 3000 mAh and operates at ~1.7v.
So we get 5.1 watt hours per L91 cell.
4 L91's have around 20.4 watt hours to burn.

Again this is simplifying, using algebra when it is more exactly calculated with calculus; but overall give a very good general idea of the difference in performance. With the 4AA's and Energizer L91 cells you get almost 2.5 times more potential storage if my math checks out. Is it worth the extra cost? Hard to say. You can find good deals on L91's form time to time so it's a close call but it is likely the 4AA will get twice the runtime or more.
The nice thing is when you're not out in the frigid temperatures (summertime) you can use nice Nickel Metal Hydride AA rechargeable and not have to waste money on primary cells. So if the versatility appeals to you perhaps lean that way. :shrug:

As for Rebel LEDs, you'll eventually be able to identify them visually from half way across a store if you hang here long enough. :laughing: For an online e-tailer you just have to be pushy and ask, be sure you get the newer model... anything on discount or a liquidation website won't be a new one; and the employees there won't have a clue what you're talking about if you ask them. I haven't been paying attention to the Apex lately so I can't say that I've seen rebel versions in the wild or online. Someone else here may be able to point you in the right direction.

:welcome:

 

[drmaxx]

Not quite sure how cold Ohio will be during hunting - but with AA you always can go with rechargable ones. Especially Eneloops hold up in the cold quite well. Not sure what the limit is, but -5 to -10 °C is no problem.
I usually bring a set of L91 as spare batteries with me (never used so far :twothumbs).
Additionally, the AA have the advantage, that all my other gear (alternative flashlights and GPS) uses them as well. This just makes packing way easier.

 

[Yucca Patrol]

I'd stick with the AA model. Depending on the day's needs, you can use a wide range of batteries.

WIthout spending three times as much, the Apex is about the best thing out there you can get off the shelf.

 

[NoFair]

I've used the AA model with NiMHs down to about -20F. Performance goes down (shorter runtime), but it still works pretty well. I almost only use lithiums as spares.

The runtime on low is very good and still more than bright enough for your needs.

The rebel version will be quite a bit brighter with the same runtimes.

If you can solder you can upgrade the Apex pretty easily. Look at the mods in this headlamp section.

Sverre

PS! :welcome:

 

[mba1964]

Thank you all for your informative replies! It is really great to be able to come to a forum such as this not knowing what I am trying to research and get the help from people such as you guys. :twothumbs

PhantomPhoton...thanks for the battery explanation. I am a machinist by trade and don't claim to know much about electrical mumbo jumbo. But by reading your explanation, it becomes quite clear that the 4AA is a much better choice for my needs and resources.

Does anyone know if the new model Apex has actually been manufactured for retail sale that contains the Rebel LED? If it has, where could I purchase it with the assurance that I was getting the "real deal"?

As for mods to the Apex, I have several electronis buddies that could easily do the required modifications if needed. I guess I would rather buy the new version with the Rebel LED and just run with it if I had my choice!! But then again, I guess I could also learn a few tricks by attempting a mod myself! :thinking:

One more thing...why do some web site selling the Apex show 60 lumen output and others specify 80 lumen output? Sheeeesh this is all so confusing....

Again, thanks to all for your helpful insights...I really appreciate it!

 

[Sarratt]

Your choice of the Apex is a good one. Regardless of which model you get. ( the difference between 60 and 80 lumen will not really be noticeable to the eye).

I have the Apex but this summer I picked up a Energizer Hardcase Professional and I really liked it.
The Hardcase also has a red led that as I understand in combination with white is used for tracking blood.

Review of it here.

It's also half the price of an Apex...
One last note on the Hardcase ... I returned the first one I purchased the same day because the emitter was off centered and the beam was bad. (keep your recept )

:welcome: