Nitrolon G2 vs. Streamlight TL-2

[Kiu]

Quickbeam,

About the P61 readings that in our website.
P61 rating 120 lumen get 7000 overall output, however, compare M3 rating 125 lumen get 10000. My P61 seems get higher readings. My P61 & Surge(9000)give about the same overall output. By the way, others reading in ur graph seems correct and very informative.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Size15's]

It's about deciding for yourself what your requirements are and which flashlight best fits them. Deciding how you want to define "best" and "cost" and "value" and the like is personal.

Al

 

[Quickbeam]

[ QUOTE ]
quickbeam: if i'm not mistaken your readings would indicate the intensity of the beams of the P60 and P61, not the total light output (lumens). the beam of the P61 is larger than that of the P60, hence that's where the extra output of the P61 would go.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5200 and 7000 figure is from reflected light bouncing around in the Lightbox Apparatus and not a direct reading from the beam. Therefore it is reading a relative number that describes the total output of the light as near as I can tell. The width of the beam doesn't matter. There is no where else for the light to go, really. Lumens are measured in the same basic fashion - reflected light indirectly striking a sensor. Please look at the construction of the Lightbox Apparatus. Intensity of the beam itself is read in LUX and is listed in red on the chart.

[ QUOTE ]
About the P61 readings that in our website.
P61 rating 120 lumen get 7000 overall output, however, compare M3 rating 125 lumen get 10000. My P61 seems get higher readings. My P61 & Surge(9000)give about the same overall output.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say your P61 gets higher readings - are you sure??? Are you taking readings with your own lightbox? If not, your eyes may be getting fooled. It's exceptionally hard to tell just by looking at the beam, which is one of the reasons I built the lightbox so we could get some actual numbers.

Don't compare my readings to Mfgr described Lumens. Mfgr Lumen ratings are coming into question a lot lately and I don't think there should be any exceptions made for any manufacturer. I'll stick with my numbers for comparison sake since they're all being done on the same identical apparatus.

FYI, I was never really impressed with the P61 compared to the P60, and my objectively obtained numbers seem to explain why. (although there are huge margins of error as a result of the only semi-scientific nature of the apparatus which are mentioned in my description of the device on my site)
__________

Al hit the nail on the head.

 

[chamenos]

quickbeam: i apologise for my ignorance...i had no idea how your lightbox was constructed. from what you've described it sounds like your readings would be fairly accurate /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Quickbeam]

"Fairly accurate" is a good way to describe them. There is some light leakage, there is some loss at higher intensity levels, but it's "fairly accurate". I expected the P61 to score higher, but a 100% increase in output should show a closer relative jump in the apparatus than just 35%... Oh well.

Interestingly enough, here's the lumen ratings from PT on two of their lights, next to my readings (a comparison I just said a moment ago NOT to do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ...)

Tec40: 28 lumens, 28.50 Qups (x100)
Surge: 115 lumens, 90.00 Qups (x100)

Pretty close. If their lumens were done on the same calibrated apparatus, this goes pretty far in showing that my lightbox is relatively close, with some possible light loss at higher intensities (which Peter G. pointed out may be the case with this design and why I wrapped it in aluminum - to reflect back most of the light that may escape at higher intensities.)

Anyway, here's my advice on the G2 and TL-2 debate.

Here it comes...

Ready?

BUY BOTH!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

 

[chamenos]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif good advice, quickbeam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jayflash]

Quickbeam, your comparison charts have been accurate for all practical purposes and most helpful to me. I appreciate the time and effort you and others at CPF have spent in helping us to make informed choices.

If I remember, someone had wondered if the foil would be better on the inside of your lightbox, but I don't remember the reply. Does the white surface reflect more light than foil? Have you found that other intense output lights measure close to mfg's specs or is there more disparity at greater brightness? It seems like you've found that the P61 just doesn't measure up like it should and other bright lights don't lose much in the lightbox. Judging from beamshots the P61 is only slightly better than the P60. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks.

 

[paulr]

I'm actually pretty skeptical of the "total output" part of that chart. I see that the PT Blast and Surefire E1e are listed as having close to the same output. But I recently tried them right next to each other and it's obvious that the E1e is about 2x as bright as the Blast (that doesn't stop the Blast from being a really nice light). There are a few other similarly strange results especially with the dimmer 5mm single LED lights. So, I think the lightbox measurement is useful but not all that accurate. One interesting test might be to take a focusable light like a Minimag and see if the measurement changes as you adjust the beam from spot to flood.

 

[Quickbeam]

I'm not going to "pick nits" too much about the Lightbox. For having a budget of about $5 and using parts on hand it does a pretty darn good job. I mean, heck, it's a frikkin' milk carton!

Coating the inside with foil, aside from being a huge pain in the butt, would result in hotspots from the reflected light. The Lightbox II will be larger (I'm hoping for 1 square foot walls), opaque (probably by having the inside covered with metal tape or sheet metal and then painted white), and hopefully more accurate as a result. Unfortunately this means taking every single reading over again... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif No fun for Doug.

As for the P60/P61, I would really expect more than a 30% difference in my readings if there was an actual difference of 100%...

As for the Blast and E2 having similar total output, I don't know. The Blast did read lower which is what I'd expect...

And yes, the readings do change depending on the focus of the light, about 10-20%. I've mentioned this before. That problem is the result of the box being so small. But like I said, for <$5, what the heck!

Version II will be better, but don't hold your breath. It'll be a while... (but plans are in the works /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

[paulr]

Yes, a bigger box should help, and maybe several sensors. I don't know why integrating spheres are so expensive. You'd think you could make one by casting some spray-on styrofoam around a beach ball or something.

 

[jayflash]

Doug, your lightbox is ingenious in that it is effective for most needs, it's cheap, and didn't take a ton o' time to construct. I admire value; your lightbox is a benchmark of value.

Given an unlimited budget, it's easy to produce a good product. You've probably achieved 80-90% accuracy of a $20k integrating sphere. Now THAT's value!

 

[Techmedic]

I think that the value is knowing where in the scale every light falls, since we cannot always believe the manufacturer's stated claims. Also, some manufacturers rate products by candlepower (next to useless!) or lux (controlled conditions???) A burning match with a six foot reflector would throw almost as much candlepower as a two cell lithium light at the centre spot!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

The chart is appreciated! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

BTW, I did purchase a TL-2 over a G2 because of the on-board spare bulb, cost to replace bulbs, the TL-2's improved ability to prevent accidental turn-on, focusability, and the clip. Pricing was comparable. (in Canada, eh!)

Techmedic.

 

[CalgaryGuy]

Techmedic, I had a similar debate. For me, it was between the Streamlight Scorpion or the Surefire G2 (both are entry level but very bright). Scorpion was C$55 at a local store and G2 was about C$40 on ebay.ca.

I then picked the Scorpion because of Quickbeam's chart, the Streamlight series seem to give more light than the Surefire series (except for the P61 head assembly).

Then I was debating on either the Scorpion or the PT Surge and I picked up the Scorpion at the end.