Orbita Lighthouse Stainless Steel Flashlight

[LumenCraft1]

Just so everyone is aware. The Orbita is actually just a very poor quality Chinese light that Chuck (Orbita) has decided to "dress up" and sell for a massive profit. These lights are extremely poor quality and our short conversations with Chuck proved to us that he was not interested in selling high quality product. The cheep 5mm LED's around the outside are a joke as is just about every other component in the light. Our lights are made from aerospace grade materials with very high precision manufacturing quality. I just want to confirm, with out a doubt, that these lights are absolutely re-dressed Chinese Ultrafire Gatlight knockoffs!


We have actually created a comparative study of the Orbita light and the Gatlight and if we can find some time we will try to share that with the CPF community. I'm sure you would all be very interested.


As for Lumencraft, we have been inactive for a few years primarily because we are focused in other areas. Walter and I are still interested in creating another new design but we have to focus on the priorities. When Chuck says we are "out of business" that is simply not true.


The original Gatlight series:



free screenshot

-Kyle
Lumencraft

Your images are oversize, when you post an image please remember Rule #3

Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.

Please resize and repost. - Thanks Norm

 

[NowIC]

Just so everyone is aware. The Orbita is actually just a very poor quality Chinese light that Chuck (Orbita) has decided to "dress up" and sell for a massive profit. These lights are extremely poor quality and our short conversations with Chuck proved to us that he was not interested in selling high quality product. The cheep 5mm LED's around the outside are a joke as is just about every other component in the light. Our lights are made from aerospace grade materials with very high precision manufacturing quality. I just want to confirm, with out a doubt, that these lights are absolutely re-dressed Chinese Ultrafire Gatlight knockoffs!


We have actually created a comparative study of the Orbita light and the Gatlight and if we can find some time we will try to share that with the CPF community. I'm sure you would all be very interested.


As for Lumencraft, we have been inactive for a few years primarily because we are focused in other areas. Walter and I are still interested in creating another new design but we have to focus on the priorities. When Chuck says we are "out of business" that is simply not true.


The original Gatlight series:



free screenshot

-Kyle
Lumencraft

Your images are oversize, when you post an image please remember Rule #3

Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.

Please resize and repost. - Thanks Norm

Are there any alternatives to the Orbita Lighthouse available on the market today?

Edit: Other than Lumencraft's Ti Gatlight as listed for $495.

 

[NowIC]

Got the Lighthouse in the mail yesterday. It came well-packaged with belt holster, charger, two 18650s, spare o-ring, spare switch boot. A screw fell out of the box when I was removing it but luckily I saw it, recovered it, and it threaded in fine. I'm diggin' the lighthouse mode and I'm impressed with the brightness and beam quality - kind of floody. The tint is a little cool, but very clean. It feels great in the hand and despite the loose screw, feels solid and robust. The machining and assembly appear to be well done.

 

[Vortus]

Kinda surprised that folks were not bothered by this as is a similar situation to the Cool Falls Spy in comparison to the Niteye Zip20 (which they still sell just not in US markets I think).

 

[AardvarkSagus]

Well, having just reviewed one of these, and even more recently finding out this tidbit of information, I have to say I am rather disappointed. It definitely bothers me some. I will be looking further into this situation and potentially revising my review. Not necessarily the impressions, but likely the conclusions.

 

[NowIC]

With the Zip20, they were directly competing with the original designer/manufacturer in the same market segment. The Zip20 was virtually identical and sold for a similar price, so it was taking customers away from the Spy. With the Lighthouse, the price is 20% less than the price offered by the original designer/manufacturer, it uses stainless steel instead of titanium, probably has lowered tolerances/build quality, and has multiple other changes. It is aimed at a different market segment. Most likely, anyone in a position to buy one of the originals would not be interested in buying the Lighthouse instead of the original. I don't think Gatlight sales will suffer. Additionally, the original manufacturer is no longer "active" and doesn't appear to be interested in expanding the target market segment to include this lower end so I do not see how the original is being harmed.

I believe patents should be respected, otherwise I think it is fine for others to step in with alternatives that offer different materials, functionality and pricing.

I became interested in the Lighthouse because of the white leds around the circumference (which give it the lighthouse effect). This was a legitimate enhancement in my opinion that was not offered by the original. While the overall design of the Gatlight is cool, I was not interested in purchasing one of them. It was only when I discovered the lighthouse function that I became interested.

I don't believe the original manufacturer was substantially harmed by the action (in contrast to what may have occurred with the Spy). Just because someone comes up with a great idea, doesn't mean no one else should ever be able to expand on it.

 

[Vortus]

Gatlights were available in Al, SS and Ti. Just like some Spy lights were. And its a direct competitor to the used market, as well as undercutting true ones. Its an rebranded light that sells for $55 on Dx.

 

[Orbita Corp]

In answer to your question, the 18650 batteries are indeed protected. Cells are made by Samsung and the battery is rated at 2600 mAh. More details about this series and two NEW series Slimline and Goldlight can be seen at www.orbita.com chuck

 

[Orbita Corp]

With the Zip20, they were directly competing with the original designer/manufacturer in the same market segment. The Zip20 was virtually identical and sold for a similar price, so it was taking customers away from the Spy. With the Lighthouse, the price is 20% less than the price offered by the original designer/manufacturer, it uses stainless steel instead of titanium, probably has lowered tolerances/build quality, and has multiple other changes. It is aimed at a different market segment. Most likely, anyone in a position to buy one of the originals would not be interested in buying the Lighthouse instead of the original. I don't think Gatlight sales will suffer. Additionally, the original manufacturer is no longer "active" and doesn't appear to be interested in expanding the target market segment to include this lower end so I do not see how the original is being harmed.

I believe patents should be respected, otherwise I think it is fine for others to step in with alternatives that offer different materials, functionality and pricing.

I became interested in the Lighthouse because of the white leds around the circumference (which give it the lighthouse effect). This was a legitimate enhancement in my opinion that was not offered by the original. While the overall design of the Gatlight is cool, I was not interested in purchasing one of them. It was only when I discovered the lighthouse function that I became interested.

I don't believe the original manufacturer was substantially harmed by the action (in contrast to what may have occurred with the Spy). Just because someone comes up with a great idea, doesn't mean no one else should ever be able to expand on it.

Thanks for your supportive remarks. First of all, Lumencraft has no patents, either utility or design type for their Gatlight. Early on, as part of Due diligence in entering the Flashlight market , I did very thorough research on that subject. In conversations with Walter of Lumencraft at that time, he freely admitted he had neither experience and/or resources to market his lights to the Luxury sector which is where we focus our activities. He was quite willing to have us do that marketing with his products. Subsequently, to investigate that possibility, I gave him target pricing that would work for me. He was not able to even come close and so discussions ended. Clearly, his manufacturing processes and costs in California were much higher than Asian sources. I guess Steve Jobs thought the same as Iphones are not made in California, but in China. Since then we have had good sales success in the Luxury market and have already added two other innovative series of luxury lights that can be seen on our website. Chuck

 

[Eric242]

Gatlight too expensive for the luxury market :shakehead huh?

 

[moshow9]

I think it very low class for Chuck/Orbita Corp to do what they have done. :thumbsdow

 

[RedForest UK]

Chuck, the problem is that these are clearly not your own original and 'innovative' designs, I'm not even referring to the Gatlight at the moment but to the fact that they are clearly re-branded lights produced and designed by Chinese companies prior to your adoption, tweaking, re-branding and high mark-ups. That is the key difference between you and Apple, who actually do design their own products.

Your slimline series are another example of a re-brand, I have certainly seen the exact design before at a much (much much) lower price, I would have to do a bit of digging to find a link though. EDIT, found it: Orbita Slimline ($155) Fandyfire XG-V5 ($18.30). By the way, how can you claim 1000 lumens for that? Did you transplant an XM-L into it and go with the exaggerated manufacturer's rating?

The 'Goldlight' series are hidden behind the wood veneer and so do appear unique, and I will admit that the wood and other materials added to the bodies is a genuinely innovative and classy addition worth a bit extra cost. Unfortunately, the inherent 'cheapness' of the light engine itself shines through the classy veneer in the mode choices and user interface; with the same crappy 5 mode scroll through interface as the majority of poorly thought out <$15 generic Chinese lights.

The issue with Gatlight is that when the original Uniquefire version of the Lighthouse was brought out it was noted as a blatant copy of the Gatlight design, but no-one really cared as it was much cheaper and in no way competing for the same market. The fact that you have then taken that design and marketed it as a 'luxury' item at a much higher price therefore riles for the dual reasons that it is then infringing on the Gatlight's apparent target market (whilst remaining a blatant copy) and is also a bit of a rip-off price wise.

Don't misunderstand me, I see what you were trying to do, and with a little more thought I think you could've done it well. Decent quality light engines don't have to be expensive, and adding the luxury wooden veneer is itself quite innovative from a design perspective and would sell, therefore there is profit to be made. Unfortunately you simply don't seem to have put enough thought into the electronics and UI side of the lights at all. Furthermore, in sourcing products which are so obviously versions of what has already been available for a while at a much cheaper price, you have seriously undermined the luxury image and credibility of your brand.

 

[PocketRocket]

First of all, Lumencraft has no patents, either utility or design type for their Gatlight. Early on, as part of Due diligence in entering the Flashlight market, I did very thorough research on that subject.

Sorry, but why are patents even being mentioned? I don't see the relevance behind it. Whether or not the Gatlight has any associated patents doesn't change any of the facts.

Clearly you've stumbled upon the Gatlight very early on, admired its design, and made it a point to have that as your starting point irrelevant of whether or not there would be any input, credit, support or collaboration with its original designers.

That in its own is unadulterated disrespect towards both Lumencraft and every other individual out there who puts in their heart and soul to design and manufacture a product with a painstaking, meticulous and OCD attention to detail.

Patents are not even worth mentioning. Not everyone has the time, effort, resource or even interest to bother with patents.

With respect to cost, what did you expect? Made in the United States of America versus Made in China. That on top of the fact that Lumencraft does not cut a single corner with any of their lights. They're OCD.

What caught my eye though is your iPhone comparison. That in itself portrays an image that you are more interested in mass market and not exclusivity. And "luxury" and "mass market" tend to not go hand-in-hand. Once a product is mass market, it loses its exclusivity and thus in turn loses bulk of its luxury status. Just ask Ferrari, who have recently cut down on volume in order to maintain a more exclusive position in the marketplace.

And finally; yes, everyone can go to China to cut costs. It's not very difficult. That's their own national pride at stake, though. As a customer buying a luxury product what matters a lot to me is where the product is made. Especially if the product is leaning towards the costly end of the spectrum versus everything else that's being offered in the marketplace.

And what do you tell your customers if they ask where the light is made? That it's sourced from a Chinese company who stole the design from an American designer some years back and which you re-badged as yours plus some additions?

 

[CarpentryHero]

I remember this thread, though my first post was deleted. I don't remember what I posted exactly, something along the line of I frown on people cloning our custom builders.

My new comment would be; Why the huge markup on a rebrand? The differences "tweaks" could have been from a custom ordered batch, the UI appears worse, from the descriptions.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Just to add my 2-cents, I think the extreme markup and not being honest about what exactly is being sold is unethical. Chuck mentioned Apple outsourcing production, but the big difference there is that Apple doesn't misrepresent the product they're selling.

 

[Racer]

Apple isn't just re-branding somebody else's existing iPhone.

 

[Orbita Corp]

Gatlight too expensive for the luxury market :shakehead huh?

No. Too expensive for me to buy Gatlights from Lumencraft, then add a reasonable markup for my Company and then have to offer the normal KEYSTONE discount of 50% of the Retail Price to Jewelers. Pen Dealers and similar Luxury outlets which is normal practice in those venues. Of course, if rather than complaining "ad nauseum" about Orbita, Lumencraft really wanted to be in the Luxury business, all they have to do is get into marketing mode. They keep on saying they are too busy with other activities but apparently not so busy to keep on whining. Chuck

 

[Orbita Corp]

Excuse me? What exactly are we misrepresenting? We don't make any claims other then what we state on our website. If you think otherwise, be so kind as to be specific...what is it we are representing incorrectly?

 

[RedForest UK]

Excuse me? What exactly are we misrepresenting? We don't make any claims other then what we state on our website. If you think otherwise, be so kind as to be specific...what is it we are representing incorrectly?

I think they were referring to the comment that you had led the OP to believe that 'they were much more locally sourced'. Although now you mention it there do seem to be quite a few 'misrepresentations' on the website too.

Main Page:

Orbita’s Luxury LED Flashlights, powered by a high-energy rechargeable #18650 Lithium-Ion battery, deliver an unprecedented level of intense white light with great efficacy. The XLamp® LED emitters, made by CREE Inc. (a fine example of American technology) provide pure white light output and are life rated for 100,000 hours of operation. The LED is mounted in a machined and polished aluminum parabolic reflector, which also acts as a heat sink, and is protected by a sealed clear sapphire crystal lens which is scratchproof and impact resistant. All structural components are machined from solid 18/8 stainless steel bar and there are no flimsy stamped metal or plastic parts. Choose from three distinctive series, each one offering several programmable operating modes.

1. Output certainly isn't unprecedented, especially considering that the same light has been available for a couple of years under a different name.
2. CREE emitters are generally rated to 50,000 hours, not 100.
3. The reflectors don't really act as much of a heatsink, in fact the plastic centering mechanism blocks most of the heat transmission to the reflector.
4. There are plastic parts, not in the body maybe but certainly inside the switch mechanism and centering ring etc.
5. The modes aren't what is conventionally called 'programmable', just user selectable. Programmable implies the end user can actually modify the mode set-up/UI itself rather than just current output mode.

Moving onto the 'Lighthouse' page:

Unique tie-rod construction allows use as both a brilliant flashlight and a low power lantern. There are six (6) user-selectable lighting programs; High Beam, Low Beam, Defense Strobe, S.O.S. Signal, Lantern Mode and Beacon Mode. By softly pressing the glow-in-the-dark power button, or double clicking it, you can scroll through and select any one of the six modes of operation. Turn power on or off in any selected mode with a single click. A handy lantern base to stand the Flashlight upright is included. Choose full tie-bar Stainless, Carbon Fiber or one of several hand-turned exotic wood bodies. Diameter is 1 ¼” and length is 4 ¾”. Weight is 7 ounces. Light output is 350 lumens. Dustproof and Splash proof to IP54 Standard. Output is 350 lumens.

1. The design is certainly NOT unique, not in the sense of 'tie-rod construction' from the Gatlight, and not at all (structurally) compared to the Uniquefire version.
2. This is probably not deliberate, but it does imply that it can be switched on in any mode. That is an incredibly useful feature and certain manufacturers have put a lot of effort into designing a UI which can actually do that. The Orbita certainly can't do that. But I can see what you were getting at in that it can be turned on in whatever mode was previously used.
3. I would bet you a lot of money that light output is not 350 lumens. Those numbers are the inflated calculations of the manufacturer themself and not based upon ANSI or even any genuine measurement of light actually emitted OTF.


I think the overall marketing of the lights as something unique, luxury and exclusive is the main issue though, although those are a little more difficult to define, being rather vague claims.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

He was quite willing to have us do that marketing with his products. Subsequently, to investigate that possibility, I gave him target pricing that would work for me. He was not able to even come close and so discussions ended.

I appreciate the honesty, but can't help but wonder who wants to support this approach: "You have a cool idea. Whoa! How much!? I'll take that... 'elsewhere,' thank you."

What is the present UI being shipped? What are the ANSI output and runtime figures of the highest front-LED mode and constant-on 'side LED' mode?