please help with this windows vista issue

[raggie33]

ok i switched to vista from linux never had this issue in linux.what happens is at least once a day i have to reboot my router.or i cant conect to the internet. i dont lose conection in any place but vista..i use a cable mdem conected to my rotuer then my pc to go online btw

 

[Nitroz]

Make sure you don't have any viruses. I had one about one month ago that would reset my dsl modem so that it would not work again until I reset the modem.

Try AVG and Microsoft Defender to see if you have anything nasty on your computer. They're both free.

The bad news is that whatever I had on my computer I could not get rid of and had to reimage.

 

[raggie33]

nah im clean but good idea.it even did it when the install was fresh

 

[mechBgon]

ok i switched to vista from linux never had this issue in linux.what happens is at least once a day i have to reboot my router.or i cant conect to the internet. i dont lose conection in any place but vista..i use a cable mdem conected to my rotuer then my pc to go online btw

When this happens, try to log into your router by typing its IP address in a web browser. The IP address is typically 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 . If you can reach the router, then the problem lies between the router and the modem.

If you can't reach the router, then you might do a couple things to help the troubleshooting along. One is to get info on your network configuration, the other is to run HijackThis and post the log output in the thread.

To get info on your network configuration, click the Start orb, go to All Programs > Accessories, and right-click Command Prompt and choose Run as Administrator from the right-click menu. Authorize the action when the UAC prompt comes up, then type the following command in the box and press ENTER:

ipconfig /all

You'll see a bunch of text stuff. Right-click in the window, choose Select All, then right-click in your reply here and paste that text here.


To run HijackThis, download it from here, run it, click the button for scanning and saving a log, and paste the complete text from the log here.



It also may be worth just trying Diagnose & Repair on the connection once, too. To do so, go to Start > Control Panel > Network and Sharing Center, then look at the left side of the window for the Diagnose & Repair link.

Also, if your network happened to have more than one DHCP server available, that could mess stuff up, too. It probably would've bit you before now if that were the case, but do you have any other routers or perhaps a Linux system that's running a DHCP server? How many systems are connected to your router? What brand, model and revision of router is it?

 

[raggie33]

o i forgot to say i also lose conection when i reboot windows vista. cant coenct to i also reboot my router. and while i can conect im also not able to log into router

 

[raggie33]

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : edd-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family PCI Gigabit E
thernet NIC (NDIS 6.0)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-21-3C-BE-8C
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10ac:eb0f:fb6c:bea9%8(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.100(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:29:51 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 07, 2008 12:29:50 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201333025
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{473CE3E6-2824-4E67-B936-357169B47
A93}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.15.100%10(Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Windows\system32>

 

[mechBgon]

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : edd-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family PCI Gigabit E
thernet NIC (NDIS 6.0)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-21-3C-BE-8C
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10ac:eb0f:fb6c:bea9%8(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.100(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:29:51 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 07, 2008 12:29:50 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201333025
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{473CE3E6-2824-4E67-B936-357169B47
A93}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.15.100%10(Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.15.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Windows\system32>

Interesting, your DHCP leases are only one day long. :shrug: What kind of router is this again, e.g. "Netgear RP614 version 3" (look at the label on the bottom).

Also, don't take offense, but it does help if you (1) punctuate your sentences, (2) spell correctly if possible, and (3) give better detail about precisely what symptoms occur. I have substantial skeels at interpreting NoOblish :tinfoil: but this doesn't really make anything clear:

cant coenct to i also reboot my router. and while i can conect im also not able to log into router

:huh2:

Also need that HJT log and the other info if possible

 

[raggie33]

i have a linksys router wrtp 54g.its also for my vonage phone.it has a phone port on it

 

[raggie33]

Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
Scan saved at 2:14:03 PM, on 1/6/2008
Platform: Windows Vista (WinNT 6.00.1904)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.6000.16575)
Boot mode: Normal

Running processes:
C:\Windows\system32\Dwm.exe
C:\Windows\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\jusched.exe
C:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe
C:\Program Files\Windows Sidebar\sidebar.exe
C:\Windows\ehome\ehtray.exe
C:\Windows\ehome\ehmsas.exe
C:\Windows\system32\taskeng.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\ieuser.exe
C:\Users\edd\Desktop\HiJackThis.exe

R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,SearchAssistant =
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,CustomizeSearch =
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar,LinksFolderName =
O1 - Hosts: ::1 localhost
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe -hide
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvSvc] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\Windows\system32\nvsvc.dll,nvsvcStart
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\Windows\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\Windows\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SansaDispatch] C:\Program Files\SanDisk\Sansa Updater\SansaDispatch.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe Reader Speed Launcher] "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 8.0\Reader\Reader_sl.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\jusched.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgcc.exe /STARTUP
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Sidebar] C:\Program Files\Windows Sidebar\sidebar.exe /autoRun
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [WindowsWelcomeCenter] rundll32.exe oobefldr.dll,ShowWelcomeCenter
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ehTray.exe] C:\Windows\ehome\ehTray.exe
O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-18\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'SYSTEM')
O4 - HKUS\.DEFAULT\..\Run: [AVG7_Run] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgw.exe /RUNONCE (User 'Default user')
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_03\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {85d1f590-48f4-11d9-9669-0800200c9a66} - C:\Windows\bdoscandel.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Uninstall BitDefender Online Scanner v8 - {85d1f590-48f4-11d9-9669-0800200c9a66} - C:\Windows\bdoscandel.exe
O13 - Gopher Prefix:
O16 - DPF: {5D86DDB5-BDF9-441B-9E9E-D4730F4EE499} (BDSCANONLINE Control) - http://download.bitdefender.com/resources/scan8/oscan8.cab
O16 - DPF: {8AD9C840-044E-11D1-B3E9-00805F499D93} (Java Runtime Environment 1.6.0) - http://javadl-esd.sun.com/update/1.6.0/jinstall-6u3-windows-i586-jc.cab
O16 - DPF: {9E58D78E-C5D3-DCF5-F38E-D1FBF76F5CBA} (MNPerformer Class) - http://www.charter.net/files/musicnet/download/charter/PerformerSetup-sa.exe
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload2.macromedia.com/get/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
O20 - Winlogon Notify: avgwlntf - C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\avgwlntf.dll
O23 - Service: AVG7 Alert Manager Server (Avg7Alrt) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgamsvr.exe
O23 - Service: AVG7 Update Service (Avg7UpdSvc) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgupsvc.exe
O23 - Service: AVG7 Resident Shield Service (AvgCoreSvc) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgrssvc.exe
O23 - Service: AVG E-mail Scanner (AVGEMS) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG7\avgemc.exe

--
End of file - 4684 bytes
btw ive had this issue ever since i installed vista. after my first reboot i couldnt conect to i rebooted router

 

[mechBgon]

1) Ok, and are there other computers connected to your router?

2) If so, how many?

3) If there are other computers on the router, please clarify whether they are still able to reach the Internet when the Vista system cannot.

3) If the Vista system's connection stops working, do the ipconfig /all step again, and save the text information into a text file before you reboot the router or take other corrective steps.

4) If the Vista system's connection stops working, also look at the IP addresses of the other systems connected to your router (if any). You don't want any of them to have duplicate IP addresses. For example, you don't want two systems having the address 192.168.15.100.



What seems most likely is that your system's DHCP lease expires and can't be renewed in the usual way. In plain Engish, that means it loses its one-day "ticket to ride" on the network, which was assigned to it by the router, and can't get another one for some reason.

You can check whether that's what's happening by running the ipconfig /all command after the connection fails, as mentioned in step #3. In step #3, if you see that the Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection section of the output doesn't have the IPv4 Address or Subnet Mask lines after the connection fails, then the system has probably lost its DHCP lease. There are additional possibilities I won't go into yet; check to be sure you don't have duplicated IP addresses on your network.

If you get any warning icons in your System Tray that indicate a network problem, or any specific error messages or symptoms, that info could help too

 

[raggie33]

ok i rebooted vista and a course i lost my conection.i then did as ya said ipconfig/all and i got this
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\edd>ipconnfig/all
'ipconnfig' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\Users\edd>ipconfig/all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : edd-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family PCI Gigabit E
thernet NIC (NDIS 6.0)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-21-3C-BE-8C
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10ac:eb0f:fb6c:bea9%8(Preferred)
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.190.169(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201333025
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{473CE3E6-2824-4E67-B936-357169B47
A93}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5efe:169.254.190.169%10(Preferred)

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Users\edd>

 

[mechBgon]

ok i rebooted vista and a course i lost my conection.i then did as ya said ipconfig/all and i got this
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\edd>ipconnfig/all
'ipconnfig' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\Users\edd>ipconfig/all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : edd-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family PCI Gigabit E
thernet NIC (NDIS 6.0)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-21-3C-BE-8C
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10ac:eb0f:fb6c:bea9%8(Preferred)
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.190.169(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201333025
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{473CE3E6-2824-4E67-B936-357169B47
A93}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5efe:169.254.190.169%10(Preferred)

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Users\edd>

Ok, that is good info The computer is apparently not able to get an IP address from the network's "boss" (your router).

At this point, just take a minute and confirm that your system's time of day, day/month, and year all jive with reality. If they do, then great. Reproduce the problem again by rebooting Vista, and while its connection is broken, try the command ipconfig /release and then the command ipconfig /renew, and paste the text in here. This is supposed to drop the made-up IP address it gives itself out of desparation, and then put in another request to the DHCP server on the router to hassle it for an IP address, so it'll be interesting to see what the results are.


One workaround would be to simply hand-enter a valid IP address that none of the other computers is using, such as 192.168.15.200 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0, so your Vista system doesn't even bother asking the "boss," but simply does its own bossing If you'd like to try that,

1) go to Start > Control Panel > Network and Sharing Center

2) in the Network and Sharing Center, click Manage Network Connections and a new panel appears.

3) in the new panel, right-click the Local Area Network icon and choose Properties, and the Properties window opens after you authorize it with the UAC prompt.

4) in the Properties window, click on Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) and then click the Properties button below it, and the IPv4 Properties panel opens.

5) at this point, you can enter the desired IP address for the computer, e.g. 192.168.15.200 or whatever, with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. You will also need to enter the DNS servers' IP addresses, preferably for your own ISP, which appears to be Charter. So those are... let's see here... appears to be 209.225.8.159 and 209.225.8.160. Alternately, you could set DNS to 192.168.15.1, which is the Linksys router, and let it forward out DNS requests for you. Either one should be fine (famous last words ).

As you may already know, DNS is Domain Name Service, which computers use to translate human-typed domain names (such as http://www.candlepowerforums.net) into computer-talk, which is what's actually used to get you where you want to go. So it's important to have valid DNS server entries if you're doing the IP stuff manually.


The expected side effect of manually configuring TCP/IP like that, is that if you connect the computer to a different network (say, at a LAN party), you'd need to manually enter the correct address setup for their network, or switch DHCP on again so your computer once again looks for a DHCP server on the network to get its TCP/IP settings from.

 

[raggie33]

some reason that didnt work.but im sleepy so maybe i did it wrong.i sure value all youre help. you know a lot of stuff.its weird that vista i have the issues but linux all was cool.

 

[LightInTheWallet]

" upgrade" to xp

 

[Nitroz]

" upgrade" to xp

+1 less overhead

 

[mechBgon]

+1 less overhead

...but considerably poorer security with WinXP, particularly if you're comparing default out-of-the-box configurations, but also in absolute terms. Looking at what the bad guys are up to these days, I encourage people to stick with Vista if they've got it, and secure WinXP if they don't. Don't be the low-hanging fruit, people