questions about my surefire 6P build

[JCK]

Hello everyone.

A surefire 6P original should be on its way to me soon. I'm looking at getting a high quality torch for a "duty light"

I used a quark aa2 for 6 weeks, and whilst it was good, having to constantly switch to the desired mode, was annoying, I'd prefer to simply click a switch and have light.

I chose a 6P original, as its cheaper than the 6PL, and I am planning on putting a Malkoff drop in into, most likely a M61WL or M61WLL. I chose the warm/neutral tint to have better colour rendtion, as if I happen to be using this on a patient, this would be an important factor to me. I've also heard that there isn't too much difference in output, and they have about 50 and 30 metres of throw respectively, which is plenty for me. They also have good runtime, 125 lumens for 5 hours, and 70 lumens for 10 hours, which is great, as runtime is important to me.

So having chosen my dropin (just have to decide which one I want more), I am looking at upgrading the tailcap. I understand that the standard tailcap is push for momentary, twist for constant. Whilst this seems ok in itself, its not very useful for me, I won't be using this with a weapon (paramedic) and want 1 handed operation, a simple push for momentary click for constant.

1) I was looking at the surefire Z59 tailcap, and despite its high price, I would be prepared to purchase it, knowing that it will do what I want, and be reliable. However I've read reports from quite a few users saying they had problems. Granted this was back in 2007 or so. Have these quality control issues been fixed?

Or

Should I be looking at a McClicky switch? I'm wanting one with a decent amount of forward travel for momentary, but then if I want constant, I simply click but it would be a intentional click.

2)I am looking into getting a 9P body, to simply switch the 6P body out when I want more runtime using 3 cr123A's vs 2. On this note, should I use a different battery kind? otherwise are this should work fine?

Thats all the questions I can think of for now.

thanks

JCK

 

[Kestrel]

I am planning on putting a Malkoff drop in into, most likely a M61WL or M61WLL. [...] They also have good runtime, 125 lumens for 5 hours, and 70 lumens for 10 hours, which is great, as runtime is important to me.

If anything, I think you'll find that the specified runtimes for these modules is a bit understated, Gene M is rather conservative in his runtime estimates and you will probably be quite happy with the runtime these modules will actually provide 'in the field'.

1) I was looking at the surefire Z59 tailcap, and despite its high price, I would be prepared to purchase it, knowing that it will do what I want, and be reliable. However I've read reports from quite a few users saying they had problems. Granted this was back in 2007 or so. Have these quality control issues been fixed?
Or
Should I be looking at a McClicky switch? I'm wanting one with a decent amount of forward travel for momentary, but then if I want constant, I simply click but it would be a intentional click.

I wasn't around much during the Z59 tailcap issues, but from what I've read, the redesign has been very effective in improving the reliability of these tailcaps. However, I have also read many positive reports of McClicky-upgraded Z41's - this is an extremely popular clicky upgrade here on CPF.

2)I am looking into getting a 9P body, to simply switch the 6P body out when I want more runtime using 3 cr123A's vs 2. On this note, should I use a different battery kind? otherwise are this should work fine?

My first upgradeable SureFire was a three-cell C3, because of its capability to house 3xCR123, 2x17500 rechargeable LiIons, or even 2xAA cells in an emergency, so I'd normally recommend the longer body if the extra length isn't a factor. Option B would be to get a SureFire A19 extender, to convert the two-cell SureFire to a three-cell length for maximum flexibility. However, IMO option C would be the best, though: Get both. Seriously. :) You will find advantages and disadvantages of either length and I'd expect that having a backup light will be very handy for you - it sounds as if you're doing emergency-related work and the best way to quickly solve a problem such as depleted cells, a misplaced/damaged/malfunctioning light, or someone else with you needing a light, you would be much better off grabbing your spare light than to do a cell change or whatever on the light that you're using. I usually carry very little in the way of spare cells, but I always have spare lights at hand and find this to be a much better solution IMO.

NOTE that the M60LL driver delivered higher outputs and shorter runtimes from three CR123's than for two CR123's - there was some very good runtime/output data posted on this module some time ago. I am unsure if the newer M61LL does the same thing, but it's a possibility. Most regulated LED modules will provide increased runtime with the third CR123 cell, but the M60LL (and possibly the M60L, there has been less information posted about that module) was an exception. Not a defect IMO, just an interesting quirk. I'm not sure if this same behavior carried on to the newer M61 series, but it's a possibility to keep in mind. :shrug:



The short version: :)

• SureFire 6P, Z41 tailcap w/ McClicky, & Malkoff M61WL and
• SureFire 9P, Z41 tailcap w/ McClicky, & Malkoff M61WLL or M61W (Edit: If it was me, I'd choose the full-power M61W - sometimes you have to have maximum output, and further runtime can always be provided with spare cells - it sounds like this light might be your secondary configuration anyway. M61W runtimes w/ 3xCR123 will still be respectable IMO.)

Now you have the best of both worlds: 100% redundancy, exceptional runtimes, different brightnesses as required, and maximum overall flexibility.

Hope this helps,

 

[kosPap]

I will second Kestrel, that covered the issue wonderfully...

though I have my own "recipes" -because it turns that they are just that and anayone has his own version of the basic dish- if you are looking for high end/high performance follow kestrels leads

 

[JCK]

Thank you Kestrel for the very detailed reply.

If anything, I think you'll find that the specified runtimes for these modules is a bit understated, Gene M is rather conservative in his runtime estimates and you will probably be quite happy with the runtime these modules will actually provide 'in the field'.

I read a runtime thread about one of the m61 dropins I think, and the user actually got 8 hours fo runtime, when the runtime was listed at 5 hours, so thats great for me.

I wasn't around much during the Z59 tailcap issues, but from what I've read, the redesign has been very effective in improving the reliability of these tailcaps. However, I have also read many positive reports of McClicky-upgraded Z41's - this is an extremely popular clicky upgrade here on CPF.

I saw the McClicky tailcap and it looks very good, just what I'm wanting. Is there anywhere I can read about some more details? What happens to the twisting motion of the tailcap? do you simply twist it all the way down tight, only having to use the tailcap switch to activate it it? But I do like having the option of the hardpress or soft press, I'll probably pick up both.

My first upgradeable SureFire was a three-cell C3, because of its capability to house 3xCR123, 2x17500 rechargeable LiIons, or even 2xAA cells in an emergency, so I'd normally recommend the longer body if the extra length isn't a factor. Option B would be to get a SureFire A19 extender, to convert the two-cell SureFire to a three-cell length for maximum flexibility. However, IMO option C would be the best, though: Get both. Seriously. :) You will find advantages and disadvantages of either length and I'd expect that having a backup light will be very handy for you - it sounds as if you're doing emergency-related work and the best way to quickly solve a problem such as depleted cells, a misplaced/damaged/malfunctioning light, or someone else with you needing a light, you would be much better off grabbing your spare light than to do a cell change or whatever on the light that you're using. I usually carry very little in the way of spare cells, but I always have spare lights at hand and find this to be a much better solution IMO.

I chose the 6P and looked into the 9P as I could get them fairly cheap here in Aus (expensive, but alot cheaper than the other torches), and I chose the incan models, as once I use the bulb up, I'll have the body, and I'm not simply throwing out a good surefire LED module. But I've seen quite a few mentions of the C3, should I perhaps consider this instead of the 9P?

What are the main differences you think that would be an advantge over the 9P in my situation?

The clip doesn't matter, as I'll either be carying on my belt, or in my pocket, so I figured 6.5 inches max length fits well, and no clip makes it easier to get in my pocket.

I was thinking of originally buying a whole 9P, but then thought why not just the body, but your point has got me thinking get the whole 9P like you said.

However due to limited funds, I'm wanting to build my 6P as my first and main light, and then the 9P for backup/higher output etc.

NOTE that the M60LL driver delivered higher outputs and shorter runtimes from three CR123's than for two CR123's - there was some very good runtime/output data posted on this module some time ago. I am unsure if the newer M61LL does the same thing, but it's a possibility. Most regulated LED modules will provide increased runtime with the third CR123 cell, but the M60LL (and possibly the M60L, there has been less information posted about that module) was an exception. Not a defect IMO, just an interesting quirk. I'm not sure if this same behavior carried on to the newer M61 series, but it's a possibility to keep in mind. :shrug:

Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to do some reading and see what I can find out about the new m61.

The short version: :)

• SureFire 6P, Z41 tailcap w/ McClicky, & Malkoff M61WL and
• SureFire 9P, Z41 tailcap w/ McClicky, & Malkoff M61WLL or M61W (Edit: If it was me, I'd choose the full-power M61W - sometimes you have to have maximum output, and further runtime can always be provided with spare cells - it sounds like this light might be your secondary configuration anyway. M61W runtimes w/ 3xCR123 will still be respectable IMO.)

Now you have the best of both worlds: 100% redundancy, exceptional runtimes, different brightnesses as required, and maximum overall flexibility.

Hope this helps,

Sure did help, thanks for the great reply.

Kospap I'd still be interested in hearing your suggestions.

 

[ElectronGuru]

At the risk of complicating things, another option (D) would be starting with a 9P body, then adding and removing a 123 dummy/spacer. This will change from 2 to 3 and 3 to 2 (live) cells without a change in form factor.

 

[Sparky's Magic]

Or what about Malkoff's MD2 or MD3 with the Hi/Low ring, M61W. AW's RCRs. With rechargeable 16340 cells either of these fine 'lights give a very
respectable 40 or so lumens in low mode - simply loosen the bezel for low, tighten for high; this is top quality all the way.

But since you have a Surefire 6P the M61W. is still the best choice but the Hi/Low ring is not an option: It wont fit the S/F.

Good Luck.

 

[JCK]

At the risk of complicating things, another option (D) would be starting with a 9P body, then adding and removing a 123 dummy/spacer. This will change from 2 to 3 and 3 to 2 (live) cells without a change in form factor.

Thanks for the suggestion ElectronGuru, but as I already have a 6p coming to me, I decided to start with that. Also even though the 6P is only slightly shorter than the 9P, it fits much better in my pocket.

Can I ask, with the McClikcy mod to the surefire z41 tailcap, I'm a bit unsure of how it works exactly. Do I screw it all the way down, and then use the clicky switch for momentary/constant on, or do I still have to leave it in the standard position like the original z41 cap and leave as is, simply using the tailcap switch to activate momentary/constant on?

Or what about Malkoff's MD2 or MD3 with the Hi/Low ring, M61W. AW's RCRs. With rechargeable 16340 cells either of these fine 'lights give a very
respectable 40 or so lumens in low mode - simply loosen the bezel for low, tighten for high; this is top quality all the way.

But since you have a Surefire 6P the M61W. is still the best choice but the Hi/Low ring is not an option: It wont fit the S/F.

Good Luck.

Thanks for the suggestion Sparky, I did think about a dual output torch, but I forgot to mention, I also carry a 4Sevens Preon 2 in a pen pocket, so that has low and medium mode for when I need that, and that works well until I find a better replacement.

So this is what I'm thinking of buying
- surefire 6p Original (already purchased, on its way to me) cost me $55
- malkoff M61WLL $68

EDIT: just out of interest, is there a discount code for CPF? just looking to save a few dollars if I can.

I'll have to get this later when I have more spare cash.
- overready black McClicky hardpress preinstalled in the Z41-BK with an extra black softpress to try it out $57

I think this is pretty good and its only about 30 - 40 more than the G2X Pro which was what I was originally thinking of getting, but this 6P build should be much better, its a warmer tint and its easily upgradable.

thanks for all the input everyone

 

[tygger]

Do I screw it all the way down, and then use the clicky switch for momentary/constant on,

Yes, thats exactly how it works. Just like a traditional clicky switch. Once you use it you'll never use the stock 6P switch again.

FWIW, I have a similar setup. Bored (18650) 6P body w/M61WLL, McClicky softpress tailcap. I would also recommend a decent holster. Runtime is excellent. Brightness is roughly 1/4-1/2 less than M61WL but IMO the M61WLL is a better balance of runtime/output. 10+ hours of regulated runtime is hard to beat. Of course if you want a little more versatility you could have Nailbender build you a custom dropin for around $40. Good luck.

 

[JCK]

thanks tygger, thats just the way I was hoping it would work, twist all the way in and simply use. I considered getting a bored out host, but as I want to stick to primaries for now, and that I got a 6P for a really good price, it all works out well.

Just placed my order, so it should reach Aus in about a week.
EDIT: I couldn't resist, the McClicky made it onto the order as well :D

EDIT 2: what holster do you use with your 6P? I'm after a good bezel down, with a buckle/velcro flap...off to read more threads for ideas...

 

[brunt_sp]

What holster do you use with your 6P? I'm after a good bezel down, with a buckle/velcro flap...off to read more threads for ideas...

I have a couple of these and found them to be superb for the 6P and Malkoff MD2.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...es-for-SureFire-6p-c2-and-similar-flashlights!

 

[kosPap]

Kospap I'd still be interested in hearing your suggestions.

well.....mine revolve around the 6P+ extender plus 0.9-4.2V modules.....wiht a combiantion of AA & 18650 batts

but I will be straying the conversation too much....

 

[Sparky's Magic]

thanks tygger, thats just the way I was hoping it would work, twist all the way in and simply use. I considered getting a bored out host, but as I want to stick to primaries for now, and that I got a 6P for a really good price, it all works out well.

Just placed my order, so it should reach Aus in about a week.
EDIT: I couldn't resist, the McClicky made it onto the order as well :D

EDIT 2: what holster do you use with your 6P? I'm after a good bezel down, with a buckle/velcro flap...off to read more threads for ideas...

You wont be disappointed with McClicky's Z41 conversion!
I don't know about Bezel down holster but, if you get the chance have a 'play' with a Niteize Stretch Holster their cheap, reliable and everywhere: They could be used for Bezel down carry, as the holster clicks through 360deg. and I'm sure many do: You would have to extract the 'light by withdrawing it from the (then) bottom of the holster - It works, I just tried it! I prefer to access the 'light either out the top or better still from the hip towards the front. Both these options allow for quick, easy access and re-holstering can be very fast indeed. With a bit of practice you will find that if you spear the 'light into the holster at an angle of about 15-20deg. the top opens and the light finds its' own way to exactly the right spot

I really do like the flat carry as my Flashlight is easy to access, yet out of the way and doesn't snag on anything...like I said 'have a play'.

Good Luck!:thumbsup:

 

[shao.fu.tzer]

+1 on the McClicky, although honestly, I've had a lot of success with Solarforce forward clickies, particularly the module in the S6. If you bored your 9P or bought a bored 9P, you could always run 2 x 18500s... for a great combination of runtime and size...

Shao

 

[JCK]

I'm really looking forward to my order arriving.

thanks for the suggestions of holsters. Brunt_SP that looks like a very well built and quality holster, but for my needs I'm looking for something a bit sleeker, basically a simple holster with/without a button flap, that wouldn't look out of place on a black 1.5" duty belt. Sort of like the surefire v20 holster, but maybe with a tighter fit, I may pickone up however, as I'm sure I could find a use for one. I'll have to see if tactical HID does custom holsters?

@kospap, I considered going with 18650 batteries for my 6P, but decided to go with 123a instead.I think I may do as the members here suggested, and build a 9P that runs off of 2 18650's.

I'll be sure to post up a new thread with some pics when it all arrives and I've got it all together.

 

[kosPap]

18650s?

actually 18500s....or even 17500 unbored.

to run 2x18650 you need to enxtend the 9P further, making ittehequivalnt to 12P

 

[JCK]

thanks kosPap, had mixed up my battery sizes.