Raptor-3 using Luminus SST-90

[windstrings]

I hate to be a wet blanket and although the SST50 is an improvement over the M1X.. I was indeed hoping for a revolutionary breakthrough with the new LEDs.

Too bad we have to dial them back so far that they are only 1/3 more than what we already have with tons of heat too boot.

There has to be a more efficient means to utilized these LEDs than wasting most of the power in heat and requiring much more to be wasted if we were to dial them.

Seems our limitation to driving them harder is Heat and battery... heat is the biggest.. if that was somehow converted to light it would be awesome.

I haven't studied much about these LEDs but are they really that inefficient?

Reminds me of the gas mileage of a big truck verses a midsized car.... more power but at the cost of lots more energy and less efficiency with that energy.

One way to get around this "for now" would be to put thermoresistors in place that would either turn the light off if it got too hot or drop it down a stage to a lesser mode.

I'm sure they could get 2000lm out of them but they are afraid people would not manage them properly and burn up the lights and have huge warranty issues, so they dial them back.

I for one would love to have 2000lm ability with the understanding I had a 2 minute limitation but could then drop back to a lesser mode.

I guess it is what it is.

 

[guiri]

Well, if most people didn't have the opinion that EVERYTHING that happens to them is someone else's fault, you're right, they probably wouldn't need to dial it back but alas, here we are.

George

 

[windstrings]

Well, if most people didn't have the opinion that EVERYTHING that happens to them is someone else's fault, you're right, they probably wouldn't need to dial it back but alas, here we are.

George

Exactly... I'll say this one last comment then I"ll end my rant.. but if I shot my 30-06 Deer Rifle for 2 hours straight one after another I would melt the barrel down so I should then complain of a warranty issue?

No because its understood that "normal and reasonable use" affords a cool down period.

But people also expect "normal and reasonalble use" in a light means they can turn it on and leave it on till the battery depletes.

But now that we are running these high powered lights, it would be nice if they could be sold with a warning and a disclaimer to not run them on high for a certain period of time.
Or, Like I said.. let a thermistor handle the censorship.

I run my pocket lights with RCRs even though they are not recommended and do fine... that way I get a brighter light with recharge ability with the understanding I will burn it up if I run through a whole battery with one sitting.

Grrrrrr..... I just hate the limitation when I can see the possibilities but can't reach them!

CPU processors use peltier cooling.. which uses electricity to cool one side of a plate "sinked with the LED" at the expense of the other side getting hotter... "sinked with the housing of the flashlight.

Theoretically, that would give us some more grace-space to get more drive.
As long as we had good copper conductors etc, we would "feel" the heat with our hands before the LED would toast and hopefully that would be our clue to turn it down or off.

I just long for the days of HID power with LED instant on efficiency.... I'm starting to wonder just how efficient that high of a power LED really is....

SST50, SST90... SST100.... will we find a way to harness the power and toss the heat, or do we need a whole new technology for this application since there is limited heat dissipation?

 

[Rocketman]

An LED is a wonderful thing. They are made with doped silicon. One side is doped so that the electrons flowing through the junction must occupy a higher orbit as they move through that side, the other side of the junction is doped so the electrons must occupy a lower orbit. While passing through the junction, the electrons must jump to a lower orbit and in doing so emit radiation, some of which is visible light of a certain frequency. The phosphor then colors the light white. I think these bright white led's emit a light blue light which the phosphor then changes to white or close to it.

So, the led's used now in flashlights are based upon a doped silicon junction. Advances in such technology has led us to this point. When there is a qualitative leap in such technology, we will see a qualitative leap in our led flashlights. I don't know if this will ever happen because a new technology might be developed that replaces what we have now. But there are places to keep an eye out for such things.

HID is interesting but it's not what I see as the future.

Understand that turning electricity into light is a process which is asking for inefficiency. Energy is being transformed from one form into another.

 

[windstrings]

some of which is visible light of a certain frequency.

Sounds like the phosphorous merely gives us a tiny spectrum of available energy being emitted.... humm.... too bad can can't dial it in closer like crystals do or transistors with radio transmitters.
After all, light is just a radio frequency in nanometers.. much higher than normal communication.... "until we get into fiber optics"

What do they use as the transmitter for fiber optic communication?.. seems thats very efficient?

After all, we are only interested in the visible frequencies.. all the rest is waste.

Similar to a fire or the sun... the light we see is a tiny slice of whats really going on.

 

[guiri]

Ok, yall lost me at LED...

 

[windstrings]

Ok, yall lost me at LED...

LOL!.. its like killing the whole Buffalo just to get the tongue!

We are "tossing" massive amounts of energy just to get a visible piece we can use in our flashlights... too bad we can't use the rest or at least a greater portion of it.

But that discussion is quite possibly beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[flashfiend]

A 5amp (assuming regulated) sst-50 w/ selector ring from JetBeam? This is actually very exciting, especially if they can focus the beam for optimum throw and useable flood. The floodiness of the Olight M21 just doesn't do it for me and the Thrunite Catapult is too much of a thrower. I have a 'nailbender' P60 Direct Drive sst-50 using an IMR26650 battery and the output is amazing but the heat transfer is not (ouch). Amp draw at the tail measured by another forum member with a Direct Drive sst-50 was 5.68amps. Overdriving is not cool (literally and figuratively). Hopefully the Raptor-3 will run cooler.

Can't wait for this one.

 

[windstrings]

If you mean "ouch" from how hot the lights gets, that would mean the transfer is good.... at least to your hand.. now we have to figure how to cool it beyond that..... I wonder how far a small DC "quiet" fan would go towards making these lights more bulletproof to heat?

To do that efficiently, I don't see how without it not being able to go underwater..... they could make one just for diving if thats an issue.. they don't need air cooling!

 

[flashfiend]

If you mean "ouch" from how hot the lights gets, that would mean the transfer is good.... at least to your hand.. now we have to figure how to cool it beyond that..... I wonder how far a small DC "quiet" fan would go towards making these lights more bulletproof to heat?

To do that efficiently, I don't see how without it not being able to go underwater..... they could make one just for diving if thats an issue.. they don't need air cooling!

I do mean 'ouch' from the heat. I ordered this to help with it

Still the RRT-3 UI combined with the 5amp sst-50 is very interesting. I've been tempted to get a JetBeam M1X but this may supplant those desires.

 

[coolperl]

I guess you guys are moving from the topic :duh2:

So....

A tiny fan will never happen in flashlights. Zero tolerance to water. Even rain. Besides tiny fans have short lifespan and need occasional maintance.

Peltier will also never happen. This is very inefficient method of heat transfer. Needs a lot of amps, and certain voltage (12-15V) ...and in the end all that heat (from LED and Peltier itself) will have to be still dissipated by flashlight body.

What could happen is the "heatpipes". They move heat very fast (10-12x faster than copper). So a big head with a lot of fins and a heatpipe cooled pill is a way to go. The heat transfer from the LED would be very efficient using this method. I guess this would increase price by some margin, but when considering total price in 200-300$ range, I don't think additional 15-25$ for extra machining and a couple of heatpipes would be an issue.

So Jetbeam, if you plan a nice beefy flashlight with SST-90 driven at 7-8Amps use heatpipes !!!! you can 'pm' me if you need some sketches

Now back to the topic

I don't get it... Why you are dissapointed ? Because it's not using large and hard to focus SST-90? The M1X is a great powerful flashlight, that outthrows most of its competition. Yet, it's still 450 lumens OTF. In RRT-3 you get 850 OTF. I think this is a significant increase :huh:

Just can't wait for Selfbuilt's reviews of these new toys :naughty:

 

[windstrings]

I hate to keep suggesting changes, but a few fins pointing forward would help too.... I have a light thats flush like that and almost burn't a spot on my nice bedside table because I put it down and didn't realize I didn't turn it off.. when I found it, the surface of the wood was plenty hot!

That way you can also see the light peeking through if sat down like you have it in the pic.

That light does look like a beast.......

Since this thread is about the SST90, does anyone know what the hangups are to getting that one on the road?.. are they just shelving it till the market is saturated with the SST50?

 

[droeun]

I haven't studied much about these LEDs but are they really that inefficient?

Reminds me of the gas mileage of a big truck verses a midsized car.... more power but at the cost of lots more energy and less efficiency with that energy.

Great point - that's exactly why I'm perfectly happy with my TK40

 

[flashfiend]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic, but the Raptor-3 may have heat issues at a 5amp draw. However, I do trust JetBeam to find a way to manage the issue. *Repeated what you wrote already*

 

[windstrings]

Now that we have LiPo, batteries are not so much of an issue.... as long as we don't mind a tad bit of weight, we can build some pretty impressive battery banks now!

My M1X will run a couple of hours on two 18650's and that light will accept up to 4 in series if I wanted to hit it that hard and still not be over its 18V max voltage input limit... that should give me upwards of 3.5hours runtime etc... and thats with skinny 18650's!

It looks like the Raptor has much bigger batteries.... if the tube was longer yet, we could do even more and have a real light cannon!

But if its going to fry in 15 minutes, there is no reason to have 3 hours of runtime!

 

[windstrings]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic, but the Raptor-3 may have heat issues at a 5amp draw. However, I do trust JetBeam to find a way to manage the issue. *Repeated what you wrote already*

I agree, in the format that it will be released, heat will be manageable (1000 lm and 1200 lm models), my discussion is that this LED will do twice that.. but heat is the limiting factor.

 

[flashfiend]

I agree, in the format that it will be released, heat will be manageable (1000 lm and 1200 lm models), my discussion is that this LED will do twice that.. but heat is the limiting factor.

You are talking about the sst-90 in this instance correct? Because the sst-50 maxes out at 5amps AFAIK. The issue I have with the sst-90 is that it will remain floodier than I prefer. The sst-50 is a much more reasonable mix of flood and throw but current handling for it is limited.

 

[HarryN]

An LED is a wonderful thing. They are made with doped silicon. One side is doped so that the electrons flowing through the junction must occupy a higher orbit as they move through that side, the other side of the junction is doped so the electrons must occupy a lower orbit. While passing through the junction, the electrons must jump to a lower orbit and in doing so emit radiation, some of which is visible light of a certain frequency.

Hi, just a minor detail on this, modern LEDs in this power range are using mostly layers of alloys of Indium (In) Gallium, (Ga) and Nitrogen (N), not Silicon. The diode junction has been replaced by a "quantum well", which can be imagined as "many diode junctions in parallel", but it is even more than that.

I am a big fan of LEDs, but for broad spectrum, high output, high efficiency applications, HID is an amazing technology. For monochromatic applications, LED wins hands down, but for quality white - HID is hard to beat. Just play with one and you will see.

For similar broad spectrum, high efficiency, but lower output and low cost, the fluorescent bulb tube remains as king.

Ultimately, the challenge on all hand held LED lights is heat management. Once you go much beyond 15 watts, it takes a fan to allow continuous running.

 

[guiri]

LOL!.. its like killing the whole Buffalo just to get the tongue!

 

[hammerface]

I do mean 'ouch' from the heat. I ordered this to help with it

Still the RRT-3 UI combined with the 5amp sst-50 is very interesting. I've been tempted to get a JetBeam M1X but this may supplant those desires.

What light is that!!?