RCR123 cell that is low voltage but good quality?

[arnstein]

My Battery Station RCR123 cells are nice, but their high voltage causes my flashlight to malfunction.

Is there a RCR123 cell that is good quality, but outputs voltage similar to a CR123 primary cell?

 

[TEEJ]

Ow

You might try finding a different chemistry, such as LiFePO4

 

[901-Memphis]

http://www.batteryjunction.com/4parc390reli.html


here is what ya need. Grab more cells there if you need more than 4. And don't mix up your batteries with 3.7v in the chargers

 

[turboBB]

I've used the ones 901-Memphis recommended which are really 4.2V LiIons w/some type of circuit that is supposed to lower voltage to 3V (nominal) but I find these come off the charger near 4V and roughly 3.9V at rest. Also, the capacity of these are pretty poor thus they've pretty much been sitting on the shelf.

I'd strongly recommend the LiFePO4's that Teej mentioned. The above dealer also carries them and I find they take a LOT of abuse (I've overdischarged them during runtime testing w/no noticeable adverse effect) and have extremely low self-discharge. Their capacities are the greatest either but better than the ones above. In my testing, the Ternergy's came out ahead of the AW's LiFePO4's (I only tested 3 so it's a small sample size). Depending on your lights' v input requirements, these might be your best option.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Dr Jekell]

My Battery Station RCR123 cells are nice, but their high voltage causes my flashlight to malfunction.

If they are causing your light to malfunction then you are running the risk of burning out the drivers due to excess voltage.

What light is it?

 

[arnstein]

What light is it?

Here is the text of my post on this subject, from the LED forum:

I have the EagleTac D25C and I have been using it with recharegable battery from Battery Station. Very bright! However the little D25C heats up like a bomb on medium and high settings. After 10 minutes of use, the flashlight is too hot to hold comfortably. Also, the medium and high settings yield results (light output) that look identical to my untrained eye.

With a (non-rechargeable) CR123 cell, the flashlight can go 20 minutes before it becomes too hot to hold. The medium setting runs forever at a comfortable temperature.

 

[45/70]

I've used the ones 901-Memphis recommended which are really 4.2V LiIons w/some type of circuit that is supposed to lower voltage to 3V (nominal) but I find these come off the charger near 4V and roughly 3.9V at rest. Also, the capacity of these are pretty poor thus they've pretty much been sitting on the shelf.

Hi turbo. What charger are you using to charge these cells?

"3 Volt" LiCo cells have two diodes installed under the positive nipple, one for discharging (which as you said, lowers the voltage to closer to 3 Volts), and one installed in the opposite direction, so as to allow current to pass into the cell for charging (diodes only allow current to flow in one direction, thus the need for two of them).

Most people that have problems with these cells are either using a regular 4.2 Volt charger, which will only charge these cells about halfway, or are using a LiFePO4​ charger, which will barely charge this type of cell at all.

These "3 Volt" LiCo cells require a special charger that outputs 4.4-4.5 Volts, or your cells will not properly charge. Also, do not charge other types of LiCo or LiFePO4​ cells with this charger. There is a risk of a "venting with flame" incident if regular LiCo cells are charged, and charging LiFePO4​ cells in this charger, will likely damage the cells and shorten their lifespan considerably.

arnstein, I've used the "3 volt" LiCo cells mentioned (but not Tenergy's) for years. They offer superior capacity to LiFePO4​ by 50%, or so. I'm guessing from experience though, that the Tenergy cells are more likely 500-550 mAh. There are no "900mAh" (actual, "real" mAh) rechargeable 16340 size LiCo cells of any type, anywhere in the world, let alone with a diode installed, which reduces efficiency, so......

The biggest drawback to these "3 volt" cells, is having to have a special charger that can only be used to charge this type of cell. Due to this, I have been gradually switching over to LiFePO4​ cells. They don't have as much capacity as the "3 Volt" LiCo cells, but can easily be charged with a hobby charger, or a dual voltage "consumer type" charger such as a WF-138. The 3 Volt LiCo cells cannot be charged properly with either type of charger.

Also, just a note, when a light gets so hot that you cannot hold onto it, regardless of the cells used, the emitter and electronics inside the light, are getting exponentially hotter than that. This is no doubt shortening the lifespan of both. Keep in mind that all of the heat generated is being produced by a chip that is just a few millimeters square, deep within the light. If I were you, I'd limit runs at high levels, so that your lights don't get anywhere near that hot. We all like hotrods, but there is a price to be paid. Use your own discretion, but......

Dave

 

[arnstein]

The biggest drawback to these "3 volt" cells, is having to have a special charger that can only be used to charge this type of cell. Due to this, I have been gradually switching over to LiFePO4​ cells. They don't have as much capacity as the "3 Volt" LiCo cells, but can easily be charged with a hobby charger, or a dual voltage "consumer type" charger such as a WF-138. The 3 Volt LiCo cells cannot be charged properly with either type of charger.Dave

Hello Dave,

You have sold me on lithium-iron-phosphate cells. Perhaps you would share your thoughts on battery chargers? You mention the WF-138 charger. It appears to me that this charger does not mechanically fit RCR123 cells. I see that the WF-139 charger does charge RCR123 cells. What do you think about WF-139? The product web page at lighthound.com does not mention compatibility with 3.0 volt LiFePo4 cells.

I have a super cheap DSD 2 Station Charger that is adequate for my needs. Is it safe to use with 3.0 volt LiFePo4 cells?

 

[45/70]

Hi arnstein. I don't normally recommend any UltraFire product, as most of their products are crap. There are two versions of the WF-138 however, one for RCR123/16340 size cells, and one for 14500 cells. The RCR123/16340 version is selectable between 3 and 3.6 Volts, so can be used to charge LiFePO4​ cells. Both chargers use an improper charging algorithm for charging Li-Ion cells, however LiFePO4​ cells are much more tolerant of this improper algorithm and can be charged successfully, without problems.

I usually use a hobby charger for charging Li-Ion cells, but occasionally do use the WF-138 for my 16340 (actually 17350) and 15270 cells (with a spacer). If nothing else, it's smaller and is handy when traveling. I do not recommend the use of this charger for regular LiCo, or LiMn cells though (3.6 Volt setting), for the aforementioned reasons.

No you cannot charge LiFePO4​ cells with your DSD charger. Actually you probably could, but I wouldn't do it, it'd be very hard on the cells, and they likely wouldn't last very long. These cells require a "3 Volt" charger, not to be confused with the charger used for "3 Volt" LiCo cells mentioned previously, which is actually a much higher voltage charger (usually 4.4-4.5 Volts, whereas a LiFePO4​ charger is actually about 3.6 Volts and a regular LiCo/LiMn charger 4.2 volts).

Dave

 

[turboBB]

Hi turbo. What charger are you using to charge these cells?

The standard one that came as part of that package and as with the one that comes w/the LiFePO4 package, it overcharges a bit.

I haven't bothered to set up my hobby charger since I don't have a proper cradle (magnet leads a lil' dangerous to be used around the house w/curious little kids) so typically just keep an eye while it's charging but as mentioned, I've stopped using the 3.0v LiCo's since they tested lower in capacity via runtime testing.

Also using AW LiCo's as a baseline (given they usually test pretty close to stated capacity), my LiFePO4's are typically 60% of the AW's or less. The 3.0v LiCo's are even less than that and I'd guesstimate maybe 50% of AW's. I'll actually have an opportunity to use them as part of the forthcoming M11R review and will post results in that thread then.

EDIT: On second thought that might not work since the M11R can support both LiIon's and primaries and will go into Turbo mode w/LiIon's but only High mode w/primaries (actually even w/the LiFePO4's it only went into High mode). Would be curious to see which mode these 3.0V LiCo's would go into since it falls somwhere between the two but closer to LiIon's (resting voltage). Worst case, I'll use a different light that doesn't make this distinction.

 

[45/70]

OK turbo. Sounds like you're on top of things. Just pointing out for others, that the Tenergy "3 Volt" chargers come in two flavors. One for LiFe cells, and the other for "3 Volt" LiCo cells. The two chargers are not interchangeable between the two cell types.

LiFe cells should come off the charger at about 3.6 Volts, and then fairly rapidly drop to 3.4x in a few minutes, or so. After a day or so, most of mine (17350, 15270, and 18650 "generic cells") stabilize at around 3.33-3.35 Volts.

The "3 Volt" LiCo cells are hard to accurately measure voltage when coming off the charger, or at any other time. With a good low resistance meter such as my Fluke 27/FM, they will read 4.16-4.20 volts right off the charger, and settle down a bit over time. With a less expensive meter these cells will read anywhere from 3.8 to 4.0 Volts, off the charger, and then also settle down over time. The different readings between meters, is due to the fact that there is a diode in the circuit. High end meters will not read the voltage drop from the diode, whereas cheap meters will, thus giving a lower voltage reading.

Dave

 

[germanium]

I seriously recommend you check out K2 Energy's batteries which are LiFePO4 as they seem to have RCR123 batteries that really perform to a high level & will outlast most if not all regulated LiCo type batteries, at least they do in my testing & do stand up to a fair amount of abuse. These are not high current type LiFePO4 batteries but are the highest energy LiFePO4 type batteries I've seen & can still work at moderately high drain loads. I've seen them outlast regulated LiCo batteries by as much as 50%.

 

[zenbeam]

Here is the text of my post on this subject, from the LED forum:

I have the EagleTac D25C and I have been using it with recharegable battery from Battery Station. Very bright! However the little D25C heats up like a bomb on medium and high settings. After 10 minutes of use, the flashlight is too hot to hold comfortably. Also, the medium and high settings yield results (light output) that look identical to my untrained eye.

With a (non-rechargeable) CR123 cell, the flashlight can go 20 minutes before it becomes too hot to hold. The medium setting runs forever at a comfortable temperature.

I read somewhere that the D25C runs in high mode in both the medium and high settings when using an RCR123. I think this referred to a very recent revision of the D25C that at least enables it to be used with an RCR123 without frying it altogether. Just thought I'd mention in case you do find less "hot" RCR battery to use - but should the "same brightness at medium and high" symptom persist - at least you'll know that maybe that's normal at least with the current revision? And sorry I don't have a link to where I read that. Just wanted to share the observation - hope I didn't overlook it already being mentioned in this thread.

 

[germanium]

Regulated LiCO batteries get hot in & of themselves under load due to the regulater. This adds to the heat of the flashlight. LiFePO4 batteries do not generate significant heat of thier own & as a result your flashlight will run cooler in the battery compartment portion of your light. The regulters on the LiCO batteries puts this type of battery at risk of overheating & venting with flame in a battery type that is already known to have this issue without the extra heat. LiFePO4 batteries do not have this issue & hense are considerably safer to use in hot running lights. K2 energy batteries seem to be the best of type available in this important size.

 

[ouchyfoot]

I have the EagleTac D25C and I have been using it with recharegable battery from Battery Station. Very bright! However the little D25C heats up like a bomb on medium and high settings. After 10 minutes of use, the flashlight is too hot to hold comfortably. Also, the medium and high settings yield results (light output) that look identical to my untrained eye.

With a (non-rechargeable) CR123 cell, the flashlight can go 20 minutes before it becomes too hot to hold. The medium setting runs forever at a comfortable temperature.

Is that an XP-G D25c twisty. If so Eagletac only lists 3.0v cr123 for that model. The D25c XM-L clicky is rated for 3.6v RCR123. Even with that you only get hi and low, but is hi ever hi...770 lm according to selfbuilt.

 

[fyrstormer]

There are some batteries that are 4.2V but have a voltage converter to reduce the output voltage to ~3V. It sounds like a perfect solution, but the voltage converter gets very hot very quickly.