Recent LED Strip Comparisons?

[stevethumb21]

I have been researching LED strips. It seems they come in two varieties: cheap and expensive. I read a post on another site a while back where someone bought a bunch of comparable strips at a variety of price points and reached the conclusion that they were all identical (produced at the same factory anyhow) so buy the cheapest. Unfortunately he did not compare 5050s to 3528s nor did he include any of the "higher end" products such as the FlexFire Ultra Industrial series which claim 730 lumens per foot. My questions:

• Has anybody done actual side-by-side comparisons of lights from various manufacturers (from Hitlights at $19 per reel to FlexFire at $335 per reel?)
• Are manufacturers claims of output and efficiency generally reliable?
• Is CRI info left off of strip light specs because it is horrible? Is bright white better than warm white?

I am trying to make some purchasing decisions and don't feel that I have enough verifiable information to make an informed choice. I many have to buy a few brands to compare but spending $350 on a spool of FlexFires just to experiment with seems a bit extreme!

Thanks!

Hi Steve !

I believe 3528 flexible strip is the best choice. I have used it myself. It is very bright and has low consumption. It comes with peel and stick feature. You can search for dimmable options also if you want. normally these are waterproof and easy to maintain. White LED has more brightness for sure as compared to warm white, but again your need dominates here.

 

[alpg88]

The only thing that helped is doubling amount of strip and lowering voltage to around 10. Even than I use them in places that get occasional use, like closets, and inside cabinets.

really???? copying and pasting my post from page 1. what are you a spammer getting post count up?

otoh might just be a bot.

 

[Solid Apollo]

OK so I am a newbie here and I want to make clear that I am not Spamming, although I work for an LED company. I just want to bring my 2 cents with out discussing brands or vendors, just my experience from what we see in the market.

1. There are various kinds of quality of Dies and Encapsulations in the market

When you buy SMD LEDs in bulk, prices of chips may vary 300% between a cheap brand and an expensive brand. What makes that difference? The dye and the chip itself. All LEDs that are in the range of whites (2200K-7000K) or beyond, are in reality Blue LEDs under the dye. The dye is made of phosphor and usually each manufacturer has its own formulation to get the best CCT and CRI. I personally have seen many factories in china, and how they encapsulate. Some companies have a room with the encapsulation machine in an open environment (Not Clean) and other have Super Clean rooms (like in the Chip processor industry). Contamination plays a big part here.

For example: In the market directly from factories, you may get a 3528 Strip with 60 SMD LEDs /Meter in a price range of $4-$24 (Buying in Bulk) . Why such a difference? Good quality LEDs usually are backed by LM79 and LM80 Aging Reports where the lifetime of the LEDs has been tested and are suitable for long term installations.

2. ETL or UL Certification:
In order to pass UL or ETL certification for the strips, Only certain kinds of FPCs (Flexible printed circuits) and encapsulations are allowed.

Many cheap products have cheap FCB with very minimum copper tracks, therefore heating up the FPC and in turn heating up the LEDs. Also as seen in a picture above this post, some manufacturers use RGB FPC for single color LEDs instead of single track FPC. In order to get UL certified, which means that only safe and high quality LEDs and FPC have been used you have to to pay a minimum of $7K-$12K for the certification and a yearly fee to maintain it. This is very important when the product will be used in commercial applications. (Specially for insurance purposes in case of fire or hazards)

3. Misrepresenting information
Many cheap 5050 Strips from amazon vendors for example, claim to be TriChip (3 Dies inside each 5050 core) and then they are only single chip...

4. Binning:
Good quality strips usually have a +/- 100K Binning increments, which means that there could be a difference of just a 100K in all the chips (Makes it more difficult and expensive to do it this way), where as cheap strips have binning of 500K.

5. Color Consistency:
With Customers that buy 50 spools of warm white and then 7 months later they buy another 50 spools, they know that they will get exactly the same tone and Kelvins, where as with a cheap supplier, in a same shipment you will get a variety of tones and Kelvins. This is not a problem if you just install one, but in a big room with cove lighting, this is an issue.

6. Warranty:
Cheap strips have a max of 90 Day warranty. Why? (Do I need to explain?) It should be no brainier to offer 3 years.

7. 12V Vs 24V Strips .
Ofter 40W of strip its better to run a strip at 24V. Why? Half the current traveling inside the strip therefore less heat!

8. Over-driving bad quality chips:
You can buy very cheap and not bright encapsulations and overdrive them bu sing smaller Ohm resistors to perform like the big boys. Visually they are the same brightness as the premium ones but the phosphor decay is very fast (Less than 3 months.

Example: A 12W strip @ 12V uses 1 amp (According to ohms law) if you run that 12W strip at 24V you just need 0.5A.......

Now a few techniques to increase the lifetime of high power LED strips:

1. Install the in metal surfaces and if that is not available use aluminum strips glued to the surface for heat dissipation.
2. Install a PWM Dimmer, even if you dont plan to use it. PWM dimmers create a Pulse Wide Modulation on the current (Not the voltage) and depending on the frequency and amplitude of that modulation the LEDs will turn ON/Off very quickly thus making the the eye think its always on but n reality its only have the time....
3. Don't keep them on 24/7 if you don't need the light!


Just my 2 cents.

Manuel

 

[John Pombrio]

Whew, lots to read here. I think the major difference is the application. There is a vast difference between using the strips for mood lighting a room or under cabinet lighting and lighting a strip as part of flooring or outside mounted in concrete. There are specialty lighting places for the latter, and they are durable a hell and cost about as much, heh.
I own 12 5 Meter strips, both white and RGB color strips from LEDwholesalers on Amazon. They are dirt cheap and work EXTREMELY well. I have had three RGB strips outside on the shed and house now for almost a year, and only one small segment has broken (my bad in mounting I think). They are bright, throw off very little heat, and the CRI on the white looks to be around 80+ (not terrific but good enough!) and color temp around 5K. These things have been very reliable.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...efix=LEDwho,aps,181&rh=i:aps,k:ledwholesalers


As for what are in them, they are listed in the description. Frankly, whatever they put into them are just about perfect, lots of light with no heat (so no heat sinks required and they should last damn near forever), extremely good control of the color, many LEDs on one strip, even the sticky on the back works well. As for the waterproofing, It is mostly splash protection as there is a flexible silicone "tube" open at the ends but I would imagine that the darn things would work underwater, heh. I run a few 24/7 but at 30 watts for 16 foot, no big deal.

If you have a particular environment that you need to put them in and they have to work in a harsh environment, then you may need to worry about the quality. Otherwise, at these prices, buy a few from LEDwholesalers and try them out!

 

[DIWdiver]

I agree with much of what the previous two posters have said, but I do have some thoughts that may not be quite in line...

I have seen several inexpensive white LED fixtures lose >90% of their output over a few years of being on most of the time. This is definitely not what the major manufacturers promise, and, I believe, deliver.

That said, its possible that a cheap mfr may produce much better product today than they did some years back. Remember, this is a very fast moving industry.

None of the major certifying agencies or governmental requirements ever say anything about quality. I've worked with FCC, UL, ETL, CE, CCITT (now ITU) on numerous projects. None of them care if the product fails 6 months down the road, as long as it can't hurt anyone or disrupt other equipment. The only requirements I know of that specify longevity standards are in automobile lighting. Specifically, the US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (and probably many similar standards worldwide) requires that exterior lighting meet the specified requirements after long-term exposure to specific environmental conditions designed to tax the equipment's ability to survive.

Low voltage equipment (nominally 48V and under) other than power supplies operating from mains or other higher voltage inputs is rarely subject to any electrical safety standards.

PWM dimming is better than analog dimming in two respects: it can be more efficient, depending on design, and it will maintain color consistency better. But installing one and leaving it at 100% will provide absolutely no benefit other than enriching the people providing the dimmer. Other than having better color consistency, LEDs dimmed with PWM will have lower efficiency (in the LED, maybe not in the overall system) and shorter life, due to having higher RMS current than an equally bright LED dimmed in analog.

 

[alpg88]

it looks like a spam post, that trys to sell strips, at least that what it looks like to me, becose my personal experience with such strips, is opposite of what the post is trying to make us believe

 

[John Pombrio]

it looks like a spam post, that trys to sell strips, at least that what it looks like to me, becose my personal experience with such strips, is opposite of what the post is trying to make us believe

If referring to me, no relationship with LEDwholesaler (whoever or whatever they are) but just happened to buy, what?, 12 strips of LEDs from them plus some other stuff. You actually had failures? What was the application that they were in and how long ago did you buy the strips? I've had two failures, one in the AC to DC adapter and three LEDs that I broke on the end of the strip while installing. Otherwise, the 10 or so strips I am currently running working fine with daylight switching on/off outdoors and using the remotes indoors for over a year now and no failures. these things cost $30 or so for the whole RGB shebang and a lot less for just White LEDs and an adapter, so it's a no brainer to use them and lose them after a few years.
An alternative to LED strips that I have had success with is LED rope lights, also used outdoors now for over 3 years: http://www.orangetreetrade.com/shop/

 

[John Pombrio]

I agree with much of what the previous two posters have said, but I do have some thoughts that may not be quite in line...

I have seen several inexpensive white LED fixtures lose >90% of their output over a few years of being on most of the time. This is definitely not what the major manufacturers promise, and, I believe, deliver.

That said, its possible that a cheap mfr may produce much better product today than they did some years back. Remember, this is a very fast moving industry.

I subscribe to the LEDS Magazine: http://www.ledsmagazine.com/index.html . You can easily get a subscription if you lie about your business, heh. Indeed, a very fast moving business! I have seen my first LED street lights, my first LED parking garage lights, and my first LED gas station lights just in the past year. That is where the big push is for, commercial. residential is less of a player until they can bring the price down.
The major failure and degration of LEDs in general is mostly due to heat. The hotter, the chip, the faster it degrades or dies. The cheap LED strips that I have been playing with are running at damn near ambient temperature (just measured the LED strip under the cabinets, ambient plus a degree or two on the LED substrate) and are cool to the touch. I will have to see if hotter weather has any effect long term on my outdoor strips (live in Connecticut tho). At $20-30 a pop, if they die in a few years, that's OK by me, but I doubt that they will lose their brightness much over that time, not with the cool temperature they are running at.

 

[NickBose]

I think it is agreed that generally 5630 strip is brighter than 5050 strip.
But what about double 5050 strip with 600 LEDs per 5m? How is the brightness compared to 5630 strips which only exist in single form of 300 LED per 5m?

 

[alpg88]

At $20-30 a pop, if they die in a few years, that's OK by me, but I doubt that they will lose their brightness much over that time, not with the cool temperature they are running at.

they do lose brigness, by a lot actually. and i don't doubt, i know for a fact. it is not a matter of few years, it is matter of few months. and they surely do not run at cool temp. they overheat and chips burn out.
here is a strip that ran almost 24\7 for few months, note 3 black dots, and darkned trases on the strip. all result of "cool temperature they are running at" lol

 

[Briankauf]

Hey folks - has anyone used the ribbons from Yuji? They seem very proud of their high-CRI and even-higher CRI offerings. The highest end (95+ CRI) ones aren't cheap ($40 a meter), but the just-high CRI (90+) ones are not so bad ($20 a meter).

http://store.yujiintl.com/?gclid=COSX4vWVjr0CFc1j7Aod4BEAog

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Interesting that they are using violet chips. It seems only logical, since you can't take a 450nm pump and make something fluoresce at lower wavelength. However, I notice an efficiency drop with the violet chip. We still can't have our cake and eat it yet. But dern, we are getting very close, eh?

I noticed that the <256 serial, individually addressable LED strips have drastically decreased in price. They used to be several hundred for a kit, now you can find cheap-o ones for under $100, and well-made ones for not too much more. y'all seen the pixelpusher stuff at illumination supply? Looks less standard, but also looks like its very well put together.

Wonder if anybody's made blank LED strip kits available yet..

 

[MalBernd]

Yes, the addressable led strips are cheaper and cheaper, so more and more welcomed by the users all over the world.
There are many professional suppliers, such as insomnialighting (USA), GREELED (Chinese Factory),ADAFRUIT(USA) and others.

 

[AgEngineer72]

I have worked with LED lighting for years including conversion projects in my job. More recenty I've also been working on projects at home. I ran across this forum while trying to learn about others' experiences with led strips. I'm dabbling with them for kitchen under cabinet and in cabinet lighting. So far my limited experience with strips are that they run cool and seem to be fairly uniform in light level over time (relatively short time so far). My experience so far seems more in line with John P's but I'm mindful of alpg's warnings. Have any of y'all used the non-waterproof version of strips under cabinet? Crude bare bones? I sourced mine (12vdc, 5050s) from a local led store here in the DFW area and I know they're far east imports. But alpg's dire warnings not withstanding, they look good and seem to be ok so farbut I'mjust getting started with strips.

 

[idleprocess]

I have worked with LED lighting for years including conversion projects in my job. More recenty I've also been working on projects at home. I ran across this forum while trying to learn about others' experiences with led strips. I'm dabbling with them for kitchen under cabinet and in cabinet lighting. So far my limited experience with strips are that they run cool and seem to be fairly uniform in light level over time (relatively short time so far). My experience so far seems more in line with John P's but I'm mindful of alpg's warnings. Have any of y'all used the non-waterproof version of strips under cabinet? Crude bare bones? I sourced mine (12vdc, 5050s) from a local led store here in the DFW area and I know they're far east imports. But alpg's dire warnings not withstanding, they look good and seem to be ok so farbut I'mjust getting started with strips.

I have some single-die 3528s also performing undercabinet duty with ~500 hours on them without apparent degradation. Also have some RGB 5050's from them as permanent holiday lights under some eaves with ~100 hours' runtime. Neither are waterproof.

Did you obtain yours from LED City perchance? I've always had positive experiences with them so far, and their prices are decent.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

y'all have an actual LED store? Jealous!

 

[idleprocess]

y'all have an actual LED store? Jealous!

They sell almost everything LED except bare components ... So the appeal to the hobbyist is somewhat limited.

 

[AgEngineer72]

I have some single-die 3528s also performing undercabinet duty with ~500 hours on them without apparent degradation. Also have some RGB 5050's from them as permanent holiday lights under some eaves with ~100 hours' runtime. Neither are waterproof.

Did you obtain yours from LED City perchance? I've always had positive experiences with them so far, and their prices are decent.

Hi Idle- no I got them at LED King, farther up 35E at Royal. I've browsed LED City but liked the prices and the hobbyist feel of the other place better. Product is all about the same.

bshanahan- yep, we have several LED stores. Best I can tell they're all storefronts selling Far East product. But prices are a lot better than the usual electronic suppliers and you can walk in and see, touch and sniff the product.

 

[idleprocess]

Hi Idle- no I got them at LED King, farther up 35E at Royal. I've browsed LED City but liked the prices and the hobbyist feel of the other place better. Product is all about the same.

bshanahan- yep, we have several LED stores. Best I can tell they're all storefronts selling Far East product. But prices are a lot better than the usual electronic suppliers and you can walk in and see, touch and sniff the product.

Ah yes - I just happened to be headed north on 35E the other day on an odd route and noticed that place. Weird that Dallas now has multiple suppliers for that niche.

 

[AgEngineer72]

Ah yes - I just happened to be headed north on 35E the other day on an odd route and noticed that place. Weird that Dallas now has multiple suppliers for that niche.

There's another store on Harry Hines a block or two south of Royal. It's such a cluttered mess that I couldn't tell much about what they offer. Looks like they're more targeted to really custom configurations.

I bought the non-waterproof, bare bones 5050 led strips at LED King and they seem to work well so far. They are white, single color 5050 and are assembled with the 2 conductor strip instead of mono color on a RGB 4c strip. So far they run cool to the touch. Will probably get more of them.