I flashlight is certainly not a self defense item. I am not referring to those with Strike Bezels but just a very bright light. To distract an attacker so you might get away from the area which is better - a bright steady beam into the eyes - or a strobe? Which option might distract the person for the longest time? I was thinking that a strobe might distract them more but a steady beam might contract the pupils more taking a longer recovery period?
Self Defense with Flashlights
- Thread starter Bob96
- Start date
Chevy-SS
Enlightened
I predict this thread will be closed before anyone has time to activate a strobe. :p There are many threads like this already..................
Lighthouse one
Flashlight Enthusiast
Strobe indoors in very dark room...outdoors- just a bright light with a tight spot. Sometimes bad guys think you might be police...for a second or two.
Ronin28
Newly Enlightened
Every second counts in a self-defense situation. Take the Fenix TA20 or TA21. Both are rated at 225 lumens and the strobe is rated at 230 if I'm not mistaken. If you are in a dark area and some perp starts towards you (with the intent to rob, hurt, mame, or kill) their eyes will be adapted to the dark. Therefore if you take your bright light and shine it in their eyes, they will be temporarily disoriented, add the same brightness with the strobe effect, that disorientation may last slightly longer, and I do mean slightly...milliseconds...yet that may be enough time for you to either book it, or to take the perp down before he has a chance to take you down.
I'm sure there are some on here that would say I am full of it and don't know what I am talking about...but consider this, that same situation I stated above, the perp is temporarily blinded/disoriented, that gives you more than enough time to bring out your mace or taser and spray/zap the perp, which gives you enough time to get the hell out of dodge.
Realistically in a self-defense type of situation where some perp is intent on robbing/assaulting/murdering you, you are placed in a "life or death" situation. You don't have time to call the Police, you cannot run for it, you have to act. A bright light may be your saving grace and may give you life saving milliseconds to react to the threat at hand.
Just my $0.02
gcbryan
Flashlight Enthusiast
Forget about the light and running will give you a few millisec's more to get away.
How many people are attacked when it's pitch black? Where is that...in the countryside?
How many people are attacked when it's pitch black? Where is that...in the countryside?
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Deleted member 14754
Flashlight Enthusiast
A simple search of "Self Defense" on CPF brought up all these threads :whistle:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181968
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=217907
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=128295
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114365
And there are MANY more
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181968
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=217907
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=128295
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114365
And there are MANY more
Seems like alot of guessing about if 200+ lumens would be an asset if flashed into someones dark adjusted eyes. I cant see (no pun) how it cant give you some time if only a few seconds (how much time do do need?) to attack or run away. At the very least if your light is on and your moving around side to side I would think he cant zero in to grab or hit you.
Any rate I keep one in my hands ready to flash then hit if needed followed by a size 11 to the face.
Any rate I keep one in my hands ready to flash then hit if needed followed by a size 11 to the face.
Ian2381
Enlightened
+1 Bad guys might think of you as a police and just backoff but other wise just run.:wave:
I carry several (cough) lights with me on patrol (private). Recently I've been patrolling a large business park which is under remodeling/re-construction. The whole place is fenced off but there is alot of equipment left overnight. They hired us when they had some problems with people hopping the fence at night.
For most of it I use my patrol vehicle that is fitted with a standard light bar with Alleys and such (my TK-40 is better than any spot on the car stock), but when I have to get out and go through some skinny spaces to the rear perimeter I take my Mag623, mostly because on flood it takes a nice picture to document a large rear area.
However it hasn't escaped my thoughts as I go into these rear areas and alleys that it would be very difficult to attack someone with such a bright torch (over 4K lumens, on a cool night you can feel the heat from 5 feet away). It would be a blind attack for sure.
And I have alot of other toys on my belt that I can whip out as the blinded assailant swings wildly.
It's not a good plan of defense on purpose, but if you happen to have one of these beauties on you, and someone does attack you in a dark alley, I say WTH, light em up.
For general purposes though you would be better off with pepper spray for real defense of a real attack (train to use the pepper and the light simultaneously, I do), but for those times that someone stepps out near you in the dark and you don't KNOW what the intent is and wouldn't spray a possible innocent, a good bright light in the face is a great way to say "You're in my personal space, what are your intentions!" (I wouldn't use the 623 for this though, It's just too bright to use to see what's going on with someone who, chances are is not going to be a problem. They would have to be real scary). I'd use a backup belt light (P1D over-driven slightly).
Remember you are liable for any damage you cause another individual that is not justified, and not just physical.
I have had several people spring out of the darkness at me and I invariably light them up. I don't know if it would stop an attack, but it sure stopped everyone I've ever done it to on the job, whatever their intent was. The lights used were all under 250 lumens IIRC.
The reaction is arms and hands blocking the beam and a cessation of forward movement (usually accompanied by "Hey don't shine that in my face"). If they were crazy, on drugs, or just out to get me I doubt it would stop them, but it would make their attack less precise, and more entertaining.
A scene from Crocodile Dundee comes to mind as I wrote this thread, modified slightly for the M*g623, "A flashlight?, THIS is a flashlight!".
A police officer saw my 623 beam the other night when I saw them trying to illuminate a canyon it was like a pinprick floating over a sea of dark. I fired my 623 down into the canyon which lit up even the hillside on the other end. The officer next to me just said "Holy Crap!!" I was almost embarrassed at how effective it was. It's seems inappropriate to have something so bright in such a small package..NOT!!
More practically something like the TK-40, even on lower levels is a great choice for those who work at night to stop someone in their tracks for it's large diameter modified spot type beam. Smaller belt lights are effective as well (especially if that's all you have with you at the time), but less so. And you have to be more precise with the beam that starts out the size of a magic marker.
A larger reflector such as most Mag-Mods and larger head lights like the TK-40 have a wider beam even on spot, and more effective spill. This is really important and not talked about at all that I have seen! They are much easier and much more effective in practice, especially with several individuals. You can "paint" them more effectively to keep them at a disadvantage less obviously as with a small head light (just innocently flick the light back and forth quickly as you talk). Usually a group will just look away or down as you talk to them. The larger head lights usually make better defensive blunt weapons also if it comes to that. I realize this is different for the average person who isn't uniformed and/or on private property, but some of the same techniques and rules still apply.
For most of it I use my patrol vehicle that is fitted with a standard light bar with Alleys and such (my TK-40 is better than any spot on the car stock), but when I have to get out and go through some skinny spaces to the rear perimeter I take my Mag623, mostly because on flood it takes a nice picture to document a large rear area.
However it hasn't escaped my thoughts as I go into these rear areas and alleys that it would be very difficult to attack someone with such a bright torch (over 4K lumens, on a cool night you can feel the heat from 5 feet away). It would be a blind attack for sure.
And I have alot of other toys on my belt that I can whip out as the blinded assailant swings wildly.
It's not a good plan of defense on purpose, but if you happen to have one of these beauties on you, and someone does attack you in a dark alley, I say WTH, light em up.
For general purposes though you would be better off with pepper spray for real defense of a real attack (train to use the pepper and the light simultaneously, I do), but for those times that someone stepps out near you in the dark and you don't KNOW what the intent is and wouldn't spray a possible innocent, a good bright light in the face is a great way to say "You're in my personal space, what are your intentions!" (I wouldn't use the 623 for this though, It's just too bright to use to see what's going on with someone who, chances are is not going to be a problem. They would have to be real scary). I'd use a backup belt light (P1D over-driven slightly).
Remember you are liable for any damage you cause another individual that is not justified, and not just physical.
I have had several people spring out of the darkness at me and I invariably light them up. I don't know if it would stop an attack, but it sure stopped everyone I've ever done it to on the job, whatever their intent was. The lights used were all under 250 lumens IIRC.
The reaction is arms and hands blocking the beam and a cessation of forward movement (usually accompanied by "Hey don't shine that in my face"). If they were crazy, on drugs, or just out to get me I doubt it would stop them, but it would make their attack less precise, and more entertaining.
A scene from Crocodile Dundee comes to mind as I wrote this thread, modified slightly for the M*g623, "A flashlight?, THIS is a flashlight!".
A police officer saw my 623 beam the other night when I saw them trying to illuminate a canyon it was like a pinprick floating over a sea of dark. I fired my 623 down into the canyon which lit up even the hillside on the other end. The officer next to me just said "Holy Crap!!" I was almost embarrassed at how effective it was. It's seems inappropriate to have something so bright in such a small package..NOT!!
More practically something like the TK-40, even on lower levels is a great choice for those who work at night to stop someone in their tracks for it's large diameter modified spot type beam. Smaller belt lights are effective as well (especially if that's all you have with you at the time), but less so. And you have to be more precise with the beam that starts out the size of a magic marker.
A larger reflector such as most Mag-Mods and larger head lights like the TK-40 have a wider beam even on spot, and more effective spill. This is really important and not talked about at all that I have seen! They are much easier and much more effective in practice, especially with several individuals. You can "paint" them more effectively to keep them at a disadvantage less obviously as with a small head light (just innocently flick the light back and forth quickly as you talk). Usually a group will just look away or down as you talk to them. The larger head lights usually make better defensive blunt weapons also if it comes to that. I realize this is different for the average person who isn't uniformed and/or on private property, but some of the same techniques and rules still apply.
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There are some examples here of how "blinding" some common flashlights (Surefire, Nitecore, Eagletac, Fenix) can be: http://www.pinnacleflashlights.com/blog/2010/02/10/self-defense/
It's generally been ill-advised to use a flashlight's lumens or strobe feature as a primary method of self-defense however!
It's generally been ill-advised to use a flashlight's lumens or strobe feature as a primary method of self-defense however!
jp2515
Flashlight Enthusiast
Selfe Defense, Strike Bezels, Strobe....I predict this thread will end with a lock
It's really hard to get the hotspot into someone's eyes, especially if it's a small one. But those are the ones you need to cause someone to turn away.
So for a pocket-able light you either got a choice of floody, but not too bright with ambient light; or throwy but not very easy to hit right in the eyes.
Even with the spill illuminating the face it may not be very effective.
So for a pocket-able light you either got a choice of floody, but not too bright with ambient light; or throwy but not very easy to hit right in the eyes.
Even with the spill illuminating the face it may not be very effective.
JaguarDave-in-Oz
Enlightened
You people'll look for any excuse to get a new torch.
If you really think it's going to work why not try an experiment - have your wife try to attack you while you use the light coming out the end of your torch to fend her off. Tell her you'll give her a chocolate for every hit she gets in on you, that should give her at least the same determination as an attacker.
See how she goes in the face of that awfully dangerous, nasty, terror inducing beam of light that comes out of the end of your torch when there's chocolates at stake......
A torch light may indeed scare off a burglar or thief who's interuppted in the middle of trying to sneak around somewhere he should not be and wants not to be discovered but you blokes are kidding yourselves if you think it will ward off someone who actually wants to attack you. In that circumstance you should not be concentrating on where you flash your little beam of brightness, you should be concentrating on your situation.
If you really think it's going to work why not try an experiment - have your wife try to attack you while you use the light coming out the end of your torch to fend her off. Tell her you'll give her a chocolate for every hit she gets in on you, that should give her at least the same determination as an attacker.
See how she goes in the face of that awfully dangerous, nasty, terror inducing beam of light that comes out of the end of your torch when there's chocolates at stake......
A torch light may indeed scare off a burglar or thief who's interuppted in the middle of trying to sneak around somewhere he should not be and wants not to be discovered but you blokes are kidding yourselves if you think it will ward off someone who actually wants to attack you. In that circumstance you should not be concentrating on where you flash your little beam of brightness, you should be concentrating on your situation.
computernut
Enlightened
I don't have experience in a real-world situation but I've hit my coworkers in the face by surprise with 60-120 lumens in office lighting and they stop dead in their tracks, look away and go "holy cr*p!". I would imagine in a dark environment an attacker that didn't know you had a bright light would be surprised enough to give you an advantage. I like having a dimmer light for navigation and then a thrower light for spotlighting things.
Chauncey Gardner
Enlightened
This thread is full of funny.
Hack On Wheels
Enlightened
I'd say it would depend on their intent, determination, and experience more than your light's lux. You would likely have them seeing spots, but that won't physically stop them although it might reduce their accuracy.
JaguarDave-in-Oz, I'll have to stock up on some chocolates and give that a try! ;)
JaguarDave-in-Oz, I'll have to stock up on some chocolates and give that a try! ;)
That's simply not how it works. If you expect that the flashlight will stun an attacker giving you the opportunity to escape then you are deluding yourself. An unexpected bright flash of light might trip your attackers OODA loop giving you a some tenths of a second to take control of the situation either verbally or with violence, but it's hardly going to leave them dazed. It is for that reason it is best used to precede aggression rather than a retreat. After all, the worst time to find out you're not as fast as your attacker is when he's jumped on your back and you're out of breath.
Depending on specific circumstances, you may, for instance, lead off with light in the eyes and strongly worded verbal commands which could diffuse an escalating situation. It could also precede a bezel strike or any number of options. As i said, depends on the circumstances.
As for strobe or steady beam. A strobe is more disorienting, some moreso than others depending on the frequency. However, it's really gonna depend on your lights UI as to what's immediately available. If you have to cycle through 28 other settings, it's useless. In the end, it really doesn't matter so long as you do your part.
I recommend you get some training and not rely on your light as a primary means of self-defense. It's merely a tool which can be used to aid you in defending yourself. Distraction, intimidation, as a fist load, whatever, it's still not going to accomplish any of those things on its own. Your mindset, tactics, and techniques will dictate the outcome of a violent encounter moreso than your equipment.
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