SF KX2C and 168s or 17670 Lithium

[rlhess]

Hi,

I'm considering updating my E2e from a KL1 to a KX2C and was wondering if that would run on the 168s Pila which is now called, I think, a 17670?

Does this combination work? Well?

Thanks!

Cheers,

Richard

 

[DHart]

I can't answer your question... but if I were you, I would buy one of these

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=7339

and put the TLS Q5 head on the E2e body, pop in a 17670 and grin from ear to ear. The TLS head alone sells for around $80 here in the USA, but this way you can get it as part of a complete flashlight for just $28! Kind of a no brainer for the money. I have the TLS Q5 head and use it on an E1 body (with RCR123) as well as on a Fivemega E- 1*18500 body and it totally ROCKS - awesome output and beam. The KX2C is a nice head, but for that kind of money... sheesh.

 

[rlhess]

Thank you! I will order one of these and maybe use an RCR123 in the body and leave the KL1 for nightlight use. It's actually brighter than the low on the Fenix LD10 or PD20 (I have one head and two battery tubes) until I put an RCR123 in it...then all bets are off.

Wow--the light landscape has changed since I was last active here in 2003.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[DHart]

The E2 body is going to need a 17670 for the T1 or two RCR123's with the T2 head. The T1 head will want no more than the voltage from one Li-Ion (a 17670) with your E2 body. Use the T2 product head with two RCR123 (16340) cells in your E2 body.

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=7337

The T1 and T2 heads have great reflectors and Q5 emitters... you won't be disappointed in the output by any means! I have the TLS head for E2 and it runs great on a single 17670... so you might want to go with the T2 and try it with a single 17670, and it can also run on two RCR123's of course... so it's a more versatile head. You might even prefer to leave the head on the flashlight it comes with!

 

[rlhess]

I'm sorry, I was confusing.

What I meant was use an RCR123 in the one-cell body that came with the light and leave the KL1 on the E2e and continue using the 17670 in that. I am ordering two more 17670s. My Pila 168s's are about 5 years old and are reduced in capacity.

Thanks!

Richard

 

[DHart]

Sorry... I misunderstood... I see you got it all right!

Let us know how you like the T1... I don't know of anyone here yet who has ordered one from Kaidomain. Judging from the reception the TLS head has gotten around here, I'm sure you will be very happy with the T1 flashlight.

 

[Howecollc]

Wow--the light landscape has changed since I was last active here in 2003.

Hello rlhess,

The answer to your question about the KX2C is yes, it will work with a 17670; but no, it will not work well. I have an E2DL, which utilizes the KX2C head. I bought it assuming that I would be able to use the same Pila 168s I had been using with my Surefire L4 for years. Turns out that the two lights have different types of regulation circuitry inside, and while the 3.7 volts working voltage of the Pila 168 is enough to keep the L4 running in full regulation, it only allows the KX2C to run at about 70 lumens or so of output. It looks much dimmer than when run on 2 CR123 primary batteries.

I, much like you, had not kept up with CPF since sometime late in 2004. I had come looking for information about the feasibility of running an L4 on rechargeable batteries. I researched the info I was looking for, bought an L4 and some Pila 168s and a charger, and largely quit visiting the forum except for on occasion. After coming back to CPF this January to research rechargeable options for my newly purchased E2DL, I now can't seem to quit.

My opinion on the KX2C head is spend the $109.00 on it. I looked at your web page; you seem to enjoy quality lights. I purchased my E2DL because after looking at some beamshots and a couple of youtube videos, I could tell that the thing had more throw than any other Surefire LED light to date. I was hoping to be able to use it in place of my MagCharger, and as it turns out, I mostly do. It is definitely a "wow" light. It will blow away your L6 for throw.

About the new 17670 cells you are ordering; things have indeed changed a lot in the last 5 years. The Pila 168Ss, and the newer, slightly changed and renamed Pila 600Ss, are neither available anymore. The highest quality substitute readily available now is the AW brand 17670 with PCB protection. However, don't expect to get 5 years of use out of them like you have with your Pilas if you are using a Pila BC-2 charger, as I suspect you are. These were replaced by Pila with the newer Pila IBC charger model about two and a half years ago (at the same time Pila replaced the 168S with the 600S). The older BC-2 charger does not terminate charging when the cell reaches the proper voltage. It continues to supply voltage indefinitely and forces the PCB protection circuit of the battery to prevent any more voltage from getting thru. According to one of the battery experts around here who goes by the username "Silverfox", this worked fine with the hearty PCB of the 168Ss but was somewhat taxing on the newer less robust PCB of the 600Ss. This prompted Pila to come out with the IBC charger, which terminates charging on its own at the appropriate voltage. It's reasonable to assume that the BC-2 charger would also be rather taxing on the PCB of the AW brand cells as well, leading to PCB failure in a shorter than normal time. The rule of thumb seems to be that the chemistry in LiIon cells lasts about 4 years, although I have gotten 4 1/2 years out of mine and you have gotten 5 from yours. The Pila IBC charger costs about $50.00, but there are $20.00 chargers out there which also terminate charging at proper voltage, maybe just not as accurately.

But alas, if I've convinced you to go with the KX2C head, you don't need the 17670s anyhow. What you do need are 2 AW brand 3.7v RCR123s. These are what I have been running in my E2DL since Christmas (about 25 discharge cycles so far). These also should not be charged on the Pila BC-2 due to its putting out too much current while charging, as well as the PCB issues, but can be charged with the Pila IBC and spacers, or with a $13.00 Ultrafire model #138 charger. The KX2C head will run for 62 minutes at full brightness with these batteries, until their PCB kicks in due to low voltage and the light goes dark. Some people here have raised concerns that the 3.7v RCR123s supply too much voltage to the KX2C; thought neither my brother nor I have had any trouble with either of our lights, nor have the many other people on the forum who are using this same set-up. However, if you wish to play it ultra safe, then you can use 2 AW brand 3.0v LiFePO4 123s for about 36 minutes of runtime at full brightness. These cells can be charged with the above mentioned Ultrafire charger set at its 3.0 volt setting, but not with the Pila IBC.

some links for clarification:
enter coupon code CPF for 2% discount at Lighthound:

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-17670-Protected-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_101.html
http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php?product=171829
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-RCR123a-Protected-750-mAh-Battery_p_114.html
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-LiFePO4-3-Volt-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery_p_112.html
http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-36-volt-or-3-volt-RCR123-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2270.html

 

[rlhess]

Thank you so much for the detailed information. I am thinking about what to do.

As it stands, I am less interested in ultra-high-quality lights like Surefire now than merely good lights that meet my non-critical needs (e.g. Fenix).

This whole PILA Li-ion mess is a headache--thanks for pointing it out.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[DHart]

Richard... please do report back on the $28 TLS. I think it's output is going to amaze you!

 

[rlhess]

I will report back if I get it. I have yet to receive an email confirmation (yes, I've checked my SPAM boxes) from KAIDOMAIN and have emailed them...I'm not saying that anything is wrong, but Deal Extreme and ZebraLight (also both from China) have provided me with rapid email updates to the point of shipping. But, I haven't gotten any of the stuff yet.

Anyway, when I receive it, I'll let you know. As it turns out, I've also ordered a Fenix TK40.

So, I currently have kicking around:

Original SF L4, SF E2e with KL1 head (fine for bedroom, I've decided), SF E1B, Fenix LD10/PD20 (one head, two tubes) and will momentarily have the TK40. I still have two UK SL6 lights, a Mag 5C and Mag 6C with their 2003 version of high-output lamp assemblies, and the SF L6 with KT4? Turbo head that makes it an M3 Turbo. Oh, and I still have the Banana in the car. Haven't checked the battery in a while, though. Then I have a bunch of other lights in the cars and around the house from Streamlight 4AA LEDs to Streamlight TL3 and TL3 LED.

I've been paring down if you've looked at the CPF Marketplace and still have an SNII there and wouldn't mind parting with the UK SL6's, but shipping from Canada is high, so I'll just hold onto them, probably.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[Paladin]

FWIW the TL-3 xenon and TL-3 led both run great on 2x17500.

Paladin

 

[DHart]

Richard... if you don't yet have a Fenix LD01 and a 10440 Li-Ion, I'd say you owe it to yourself to go there.... phenomenal, putting it mildly!

 

[greenLED]

I have an E2DL, which utilizes the KX2C head.

:thinking: The E2DL bezel has 2 modes; the KX2C bezel has a single mode...

I'm not convinced they're the same (I even started a thread about that).

 

[Howecollc]

:thinking: The E2DL bezel has 2 modes; the KX2C bezel has a single mode...

I'm not convinced they're the same (I even started a thread about that).

I suppose I could have worded that a little more clearly. However, weren't the early single mode E2DLs simply a KX2C head that hadn't received the modification to the electronics to make it a 2 stage? I didn't mention the low setting exclusive to my head as it would be of no concern to the OP, and might only serve to confuse things. I don't pay any attention to the low setting on my light anyway; I find it annoying that it's even there. If I'm doing something where I need less light than the E2DL at full output provides, I will have grabbed my L4 to start with. I really was under the impression that the E2DL on high was identical to the KX2C in output and beam pattern. So, this is not the case?

 

[rlhess]

Paladin,

Thanks for the tip, but in general I go through one or two sets of SF 123A cells a year in these lights. They are there mostly IN CASE in the vehicles.

DHart,

Thanks for the information regarding the 10440 Li-ion cell. However, I see that a step backwards in a way from the NiMH AA in the LD10. Actually, my LD10 is a PD20 head on an LD10 tube. The reason I got the LD10 tube was I LIKED the low light level of the PD20 on an SF 123A and hated it on the Tenergy RCR123A cells that I bought with the light.

I have put together an Otter Box with about a half dozen 123A cells, the "candle" adapter for the Fenix and the 123 battery tube (PD20)--there are a few applications where I need the extra light output and the candle feature--and I just gave away to my B-I-L two fluorescent lanterns that run on 4 D cells (each).

One of the things I love/hate about CPF is that someone always comes up with a better idea <smile>. The www.4Sevens.com Quark Lights appear very interesting. Can't wait to read a review and see beamshots. If that solves the RCR123A low light capability, I think I'll buy one.

GreenLED and Howecollc--Aaargh--I hate all the confusion caused by lack of GOOD data sheets on all this gear. It seems in so many areas of endeavour that one must buy and use the device -- and measure it themselves--to fully characterize its performance. This goes for everything from flashlights to cars, camera lenses to microphones.

Thanks all for an interesting thread.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[DHart]

Richard... what I love about the LD01 and 10440 is the incredibly tiny size carries in my front pants pocket completely un-noticibly and gives a brightness on high that rivals full size R2 flashlights... I just love that!

Of course as with all flashlights, it's not a perfect- do-all flashlight for every need (that's why we have numerous flashlights at our disposal), but what it is for me is a brilliantly bright light that's brilliantly small and lightweight. So small and lightweight that it can even be carried in a suit-pants or suit-coat pocket without being noticed:thumbsup:

 

[rlhess]

Dhart,

That sounds like a plan for you, but the 123 tube on the PD20 is shorter than the LD10's AA tube and the tube is no larger in diamter than the head. The LD01 is smaller still, but I think the PD20 is less volume than the LD10 and is certainly shorter.

The 4Sevens Quark Lights appear to be able to run off a Li-ion rechargeable with no change in output which is indeed interesting.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[DHart]

Richard... the super light weight and super small tube diameter of the LD01 accounts more for the "un-noticible" carry in a pocket than the length does.

I'm thinking I may be adding a single-cell Quark or two to my line up!

 

[greenLED]

I suppose I could have worded that a little more clearly. However, weren't the early single mode E2DLs simply a KX2C head that hadn't received the modification to the electronics to make it a 2 stage?

Howe, I honestly don't know. We've been speculating about it for a while now, but until I see pics of the circuits side by side I'm not convinced.

I guess it depends on people's needs if they want the low mode or not. I decided that I needed a bright, single stage light, so I went with the KX2C. However, I have other lights that I almost exclusively use in low mode (PD, for example).

 

[DHart]

Richard... I know you have a lot of experience with flashlights... but, the LD01 is one of those lights that if you don't have one in your hand and can't physically evaluate the size, weight, and sheer output on a 10440, you really can't evaluate the light very well.

Just think amazingly small, amazingly lightweight, and MIND-bogglingly bright! Make it very-well made, 3-output levels, capable of running on 10440 Li-Ion, AAA lithium primary, AAA NiMh, or AAA alkaline. It's a pretty mind boggling light, for sure.

Is your interest even a little bit piqued?

It wasn't long ago that I wouldn't even consider a AAA flashlight... couldn't be bothered. Then, somehow, an LD01 and a 10440 slipped past my defenses. YIKES.