Shopping - High powered, 300-500+ lm

[tnforever]

First off, I've been here for a while, but since I'm looking for a new flashlight to treat myself, I'll use the checklist:

0) What Region/Country/State will the light be purchased in?

Mail order possible, but I prefer to go B&M so I can see it, and I don't like ordering things that are too expensive online, especially if I have to return it. Plus, B&M = I don't have to order from somewhere obviously related to flashlights.

1) Price Range: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :-)

As low as possible, $100 the limit.

2) Format:

A flashlight I can strap onto my bike, as a bike light, obviously, but not a specially designed one, for both cost and practicality reasons.

3) Length:

As always, smaller the better, but no more than 7-8 inches or so.

4) Width:

Don't care.

5) What batteries do you want to use?

____I want common batteries. (AA)

Here's where I have wiggle room, IF buying a light + charger + Li-ion batteries still come out cheaper, then I'd take the Li-ion batteries. Otherwise, firm believer in common batteries, easier to maintain, easier to find in emergencies.

6) How much light do you want? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

The more the better. This light will be my "high beam" on my bike, gonna say at least 300, preferably more than 400. This will also be the single brightest light that runs on batteries (of any sort) that I have.

7) Throw vs Flood: Which do you prefer, lights that flood an area with a wide beam, or lights that "throw" with a tightly focused beam? Place an “X” on the line below.

Throw (distance)----------------------|---O------------------Flood/close-up

Whatever beam pattern suits my need, I've heard the A6 Polestar is a good bike light... very big spill. FYI, I've found my Romisen RC-N3 to be too throwy, I unscrew the head to defocus it, the Fenix L2D I have are pretty good for all purpose... I'll say if I want a new single light, I would prefer a floodier light for closer range like a A6...while still enough of a hot spot to light up well the 30m/100ft in front of me, and be able to see another 100ft.

8) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims (like some LED lights). but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries.

I rarely use high beam for more than 15-20 minutes straight, but would like not having to charge it every time I ride. Multimode obviously preferred, almost necessary. About an hour on high is acceptable.

9) Durability: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood.)
____Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box.)

Important, I'll still bring my Fenixes (my standard for pretty good quality), so I'll have backups with me... I know this is the one area where I can compromise for the sake of price. As long as it can work reliably given the vibrations expected from road biking I'm fine.

8) Switch Type:

____I want a "clickie” switch. (Stays on until pressed again.)

Clicky, basically the defacto standard nowadays isn't it? Twisties are ok too.

9) Switch Location:

____I want a push or sliding switch on the body near the head.
____I want a push switch on the back end of the body.

Either Tail or body... doesn't really matter, prefer tail for ease of operation while on a bike.

10) Operational Modes: Check all that apply.

Again, would prefer multimode, I can live with strobe or SOS, but don't need it, and single mode.... would be last resort, only if it was considerably cheaper than a multimode.

11) Is it important whether the body is metal or plastic/composite?

____I want a metal-bodied light.

Needed for heat dissipation

12) Special Needs: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Circle any below or write in your own comment(s).

____Waterproof – how deep: weather proof
____Best to be scratch hiding color
____Corrosion resistant or hard-anodized finish

Summary:
So, to summarize, price is the most important. I'm looking for AA NiMH powered, UNLESS light + battery + charger winds up being cheaper. Build quality good enough to take road riding reliably (NOT fail proof). 250+ OTF Lumens, preferably 400+, so either incan, multi-die, or multi-emitter. Runtime at least an hour or so on Max. Multimode, and would prefer to be B&M (just don't want to send somethign so expensive back and forth, and really want to see it in person first, plus pay in cash = no one sees it on the credit card bill =D)

Thoughts:
Up until now I've been looking at the TK40 and the A6 Polestar, as those are the only two lights I've seen that meets my requirement.

But, the A6 Polestar is quite expensive, and I have to mail order it, which I wish I didnt, and the modes arent really ideally placed. The TK40 has the same money problem, more than I'm willing to spend, and STILL i have to mail order it... modes are really quite nice... dunno about the beam pattern.

Other than that, I don't know of any high output lights that use common batteries, as I've said I wouldn't mind if I can get a charger+battery combo for a lower price... but I'm having hard time finding decent quality (Romisen, for example) that I can either buy locally, or cost little.

Finally, also been looking at the TK20, TINT rocks, but output is not what I'm looking for... cost is also not bad. I would want a multi-emitter light I can swap out the LEDs, so I can have a neutral or warm+cool set up, etc etc...

But that's more thinking that I need to at this stage of the buying process.

Edit: Major re-edit to simplify and shorten.

 

[pipspeak]

Re: Shopping - MCE,P7,Multi-emitter,Incan?

Hmmm... limiting to AA also limits your options of a light over 200 lumens (except, obviously, the TK40 which needs 8xAA batteries). And limiting to cash-sale really limits your options, unless you can do paypal using your checking account.

My first thought is to buy a cheap Maglite that runs on C or D cells from Lowes or similar and buy a good drop-in for it, like one from Malkoff Devices. That'll come in under $100. Or even a 3-cell Maglite with a newer rebel emitter might be bright enough on its own and is commonly available (but ask folks here how to identify the newer, more powerful emitter). If you're feeling adventurous you could get a module from Fivemega that allows you to used 8xAA batteries in a 2D cell Maglite, providing even more power for even more powerful drop-ins.

Second idea is a Solarforce L2 -- you can buy packages that include light, emitter-module, 18650 battery and charger for about $40 (at sbflashlights.com). The L2 is also a great "host" light and takes drop-in emitter modules made by all sorts of companies and people with all sorts of configurations and options (different outputs, different number of modes etc. that range in price from $20-$70). Solarforce also offers a 2xAA body for that light (the L2-R), which would limit your drop-in options but would avoid dealing with a new battery format.

For a straight-up 2xAA light like the TK20, check out the roundup that CPFer Selfbuilt has put together in the reviews section. All those lights come in well under $100 and a few get close to 200 lumens (some of the more recent ones are missing, but they'll be tested soon I'm sure).
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=214890

But again, you'd be hard pressed to find any of them locally for a cash deal.

 

[Benson]

Re: Shopping - MCE,P7,Multi-emitter,Incan?

3) Length:

As always, smaller the better, but no more than 8 inches or so.

5) What batteries do you want to use?

____I want common Alkaline batteries. (AA, AAA, C, D)

OK, in 8 inches, you might get 2 D cells (but not a 2D Mag), easily 2 C cells or maybe 3, or 2 (maybe 3) AA cells lengthwise. (And 3xAAA are obviously possible, but ridiculous.)
Assuming LSD NiMH, AA cells are ~2.4 Wh each, C cells ~6 Wh, and D cells ~12 Wh.

Should things work out cheaper for Li-ion, a decent 18650 is ~10 Wh, and you can get 2 of them lengthwise.

6) How much light do you want? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).

____I want to light an entire campground or dazzle an intruder. (100+ lumens)

The more the better this light will be my "high beam", gonna say at least 300, preferably more than 500.

500 lumens OTF on the incan side puts you in 5761 territory, I'd say 30W. On a P7, MC-E, or SST-50, about 10W.

8) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims (like some LED lights). but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries.

____60-240 min. (1-2 hours)
____240-360 min. (4-6 hours)

I rarely use high beam for more than 15-20 minutes straight, but would like not having to charge it every time I ride. Multimode obviously preferred.

Well, if you're looking for an hour minimum runtime, incan's gonna need 30Wh. You could just make that with a wide-stack 3x18650 light; maybe a TH-1300. But I don't know of any that comes out below $100 with cells and charger. For basically any incan, multimode is extra, requires significant modding skill, and adds probably $100 or so on top.

LEDs are much more workable here, and a 1x, 2x, or 3x18650, 3C, or 2D would be quite fine. Alternatively, an AA stack 2 long by 3 or 4 wide would do nicely, as long as you keep it balanced. (If you go for the TK40, you probably should plan on buying 8 new eneloops, as well...)

High quality 3C lights other than Mag mods are pretty scarce, and a 3C Mag is too long, so that's out. A 2D is unlikely because of the high-current boost circuit required, and again 2D Mags are too long. A 2C Mag will almost certainly come out short on either output or runtime, because of the inefficiency of the boost converter.

I think you were correct in your selection of the only two options that met your requirements, but since you mentioned Li-ion being an option if it was cheaper, your real options are LEDs with 18650s, the TK40, or the A6 Polestar.


There's tons of 1x18650 and/or 2x18650 P7 or MC-E lights available for around $30-$50 from DX or KD, which would seem to meet all these requirements. I don't own _any_ of the prebuilt P7/MC-Es, so I can only direct you to BessieBenny's budget light thread for help in selecting the best one WRT driver quality, build quality, etc.. If you figure $40 for the light, and get 2 18650-26s and a charger w/ shipping from AW, you come out to $92.50 -- barely under your maximum, but definitely cheaper than a TK40, and cheaper than a Polestar with the new Eneloops you'd need.

But the Polestar does come close, and looks quite interesting. Thanks for mentioning it, as I hadn't seen it before. :thumbsup:

 

[tnforever]

My first thought is to buy a cheap Maglite that runs on C or D cells from Lowes or similar and buy a good drop-in for it, like one from Malkoff Devices. That'll come in under $100. Or even a 3-cell Maglite with a newer rebel emitter might be bright enough on its own and is commonly available (but ask folks here how to identify the newer, more powerful emitter). If you're feeling adventurous you could get a module from Fivemega that allows you to used 8xAA batteries in a 2D cell Maglite, providing even more power for even more powerful drop-ins.

No way the Rebel is brighter, I've seen the reviews. I actually plan on buying a couple to use as car lights. 3-cell is way too big, even the 2-cell is marginal, I suppose 8 inches was a bit too big, I thought my L2Ds were 6 inches but they're actually only 5 inches, so I'll say 7-8 inches max.

I would have to buy a Malkoff, but the problem is i much prefer using AAs than Ds... and I'm not sure how runtime would be.

What's up with FM? I've read many posts and he seems like a legend, but I can't find many places where purchases can actually be made, afaik. As well built and well engineered his adapters are, though, they really cost a bundle, and getting a custom part here, a custom part there really adds up quickly.

But thanks for your suggestion there, i never thought of it.

Second idea is a Solarforce L2 -- you can buy packages that include light, emitter-module, 18650 battery and charger for about $40 (at sbflashlights.com). The L2 is also a great "host" light and takes drop-in emitter modules made by all sorts of companies and people with all sorts of configurations and options (different outputs, different number of modes etc. that range in price from $20-$70). Solarforce also offers a 2xAA body for that light (the L2-R), which would limit your drop-in options but would avoid dealing with a new battery format.

Solarforce L2 is definitely in consideration, I got a chance to get a complete set up with an MC-E while I was on vacation... I regret passing up on that cuz at the time I was iffy about Lithium batteries... I seriously doubt 2AA can satisfy my needs though.

For a straight-up 2xAA light like the TK20, check out the roundup that CPFer Selfbuilt has put together in the reviews section. All those lights come in well under $100 and a few get close to 200 lumens (some of the more recent ones are missing, but they'll be tested soon I'm sure).
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=214890

But again, you'd be hard pressed to find any of them locally for a cash deal.

I can get some Fenixes, I think in a place close by where I live, there are a couple B&M stores that sell them, but at a bit of a premium over 4-7 and other online vendors. The only apprehension I have about those is that I'd have to get multiple, which is the reason I wanted a single light in the first place. Right now I run 2 L2Ds and 2 Tank007s all strapped together, which is a bit of a b*tch to set up and take apart and turn on.

Also, I just looked at your thread and remembered why i didnt want to get the TK-20: The throwy nature, I have an L2D (really my only "good" light) to compare and even though it puts out more light than the TK-20 the throw is only 70% of the Tk20s, but I find the L2D's beam to be pretty good. I can think that if I use it as a high beam it might not be so bad... but I don't want to make a $55 dollar mistake.

OK, in 8 inches, you might get 2 D cells (but not a 2D Mag), easily 2 C cells or maybe 3, or 2 (maybe 3) AA cells lengthwise. (And 3xAAA are obviously possible, but ridiculous.)
Assuming LSD NiMH, AA cells are ~2.4 Wh each, C cells ~6 Wh, and D cells ~12 Wh.

Should things work out cheaper for Li-ion, a decent 18650 is ~10 Wh, and you can get 2 of them lengthwise.
500 lumens OTF on the incan side puts you in 5761 territory, I'd say 30W. On a P7, MC-E, or SST-50, about 10W.

Thanks for the maths, I didn't know the specifics involved, this gives me a great deal of help, especially eliminated incans (I was always under the impression they're still superior to LEDs at higher lumens).

Note that I don't need a single emitter light, I've been looking at 3/4/5xXR-E lights too, how do they compare to MC-Es, etc? I actually thought of that because I use the light to ride, and thought that I could have a 4x light with 2 neutrals and 2 cools or something like that.

NiMH Cs and Ds are definitely out, since (correct me if I'm wrong) 18650s are cheaper, and I dont have the infracstructure to support either.

Well, if you're looking for an hour minimum runtime, incan's gonna need 30Wh. You could just make that with a wide-stack 3x18650 light; maybe a TH-1300. But I don't know of any that comes out below $100 with cells and charger. For basically any incan, multimode is extra, requires significant modding skill, and adds probably $100 or so on top.

LEDs are much more workable here, and a 1x, 2x, or 3x18650, 3C, or 2D would be quite fine. Alternatively, an AA stack 2 long by 3 or 4 wide would do nicely, as long as you keep it balanced. (If you go for the TK40, you probably should plan on buying 8 new eneloops, as well...)

I bought a bunch of new Rayohybrids, as well as a bunch of new Duraloops recently, intended for a few things (flashlights among them) so this is a non-issue. The budget really only relates to online vendors, so I don't unnecessarily alert , shame I can't find 18650s at a regular store.

High quality 3C lights other than Mag mods are pretty scarce, and a 3C Mag is too long, so that's out. A 2D is unlikely because of the high-current boost circuit required, and again 2D Mags are too long. A 2C Mag will almost certainly come out short on either output or runtime, because of the inefficiency of the boost converter.

I think you were correct in your selection of the only two options that met your requirements, but since you mentioned Li-ion being an option if it was cheaper, your real options are LEDs with 18650s, the TK40, or the A6 Polestar.


There's tons of 1x18650 and/or 2x18650 P7 or MC-E lights available for around $30-$50 from DX or KD, which would seem to meet all these requirements. I don't own _any_ of the prebuilt P7/MC-Es, so I can only direct you to BessieBenny's budget light thread for help in selecting the best one WRT driver quality, build quality, etc.. If you figure $40 for the light, and get 2 18650-26s and a charger w/ shipping from AW, you come out to $92.50 -- barely under your maximum, but definitely cheaper than a TK40, and cheaper than a Polestar with the new Eneloops you'd need.

But the Polestar does come close, and looks quite interesting. Thanks for mentioning it, as I hadn't seen it before. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the really detail n direct feedback! How much better are batteries on AW than the Ultrafire ones they have on DX? I figured on DX a light would come to around 60-70 bucks... but at that rate its uncomfortably close to the A6, which I can get more acccountability for, and have to wait only a week instead of a month.

I still have not made a purchase from DX, and still apprehensive, given all the horror stories!

Either way, thanks for the time and effort you took putting in so much information, this is gonna give me something to think about. If only I could find A6s locally...

 

[glockboy]

How about the MG PLI from shiningbeam?
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=194757

 

[hyperloop]

depending on where you're riding and the ambient light conditions, a TK20 might do the job, take a look here and check out the beamshots of the TK20 along with many other flashlights.

I'd think a TK40 might be too big and heavy to strap onto your bike unless you have some really solid means of securing the light to your bike. If compact and high output is what you need, perhaps a 18650 powered, MC-E light as suggested earlier would fit the bill.

 

[daimleramg]

Polestar 700lm for about $80.00 plus shipping? and it takes AA

 

[Benson]

Note that I don't need a single emitter light, I've been looking at 3/4/5xXR-E lights too, how do they compare to MC-Es, etc?

Generally, the multi-emitter light should get an advantage in efficiency due to better cooling, but not much. Obviously if you use more than 4 XR-Es, you can match the MC-E/P7's output while running at lower current, giving a further, and larger, efficiency gain. (I assume you know that a P7 or MC-E has 4 of the same dice used in XR-Es...) Also, IIRC XR-Es are rated at 1A per die, while P7/MC-E are only ~750mA -- largely due to the issue of ditching that much heat from a small package.

But there's a ton of production P7 and MC-E lights, and only a few multi-emitter lights, so I focused on the common ones. The multi-emitter rigs do get more common in customs and mods, which are generally out of your price range.

NiMH Cs and Ds are definitely out, since (correct me if I'm wrong) 18650s are cheaper, and I dont have the infracstructure to support either.

OK, that changes things. IIRC Cs and Ds do cost about the same as 18650s, Cs a bit less, Ds a bit more. Not sure how chargers stack up...

If you don't have chargers for the big cells, then they're right out; the 18650s are a better choice for investing the same cash in a new flashlight format, unless you need limited primary compatibility. OTOH, maybe if you have enough other C or D appliances (boom box, etc.), maybe the investment for NiMH D cells would get more return than just flashlights...

You could try KOH cells, and I've had good-enough success running a P7 off 4 KOH D cells, but you get really bad runtime under those currents. A fistful of AAs is probably the best way to get the levels you want from KOH cells.

I bought a bunch of new Rayohybrids, as well as a bunch of new Duraloops recently, intended for a few things (flashlights among them) so this is a non-issue. The budget really only relates to online vendors, so I don't unnecessarily alert , shame I can't find 18650s at a regular store.

OK, then, as long as they're new, you should be good to go. :thumbsup: It's a pity indeed, but if you're really wanting 18650s without buying online, there's always the safe-chemistry 18650s and 26650/26700s in power-tool battery packs. Of course, those all have lower capacity and higher current capability -- good for hotwires and single-cell multi-emitter or overdriven multi-die lights, but unneeded power and poor energy for many LED lights.

Thanks for the really detail n direct feedback! How much better are batteries on AW than the Ultrafire ones they have on DX? I figured on DX a light would come to around 60-70 bucks... but at that rate its uncomfortably close to the A6, which I can get more acccountability for, and have to wait only a week instead of a month.

Well, it used to be a tossup, IMHO, when AW only had the 2.2Ah cells. AW's PCBs are known to be rock-solid, whereas the UF ones are more of an unknown. The main advantage to AW's cells is AW himself -- there's someone you can talk to if you have problems, and if he does ship you a defective cell, he'll replace it. Whether the underlying cells were any better was unclear to me, and AW's capacity was inferior. FWIW, I didn't buy any of AW's 18650-22 cells, going with DX for most battery purchases.

Especially in a single-cell light, where the protection circuit mostly serves to terminate over-discharge before you are too mean to the poor cell, rather than to avoid a reverse-charge/:poof: situation, some of the DX cells seem like quite reasonable options.

But now that AW has the 2.6Ah 18650s available, I'll probably buy my next batch from there, unless they're for a particular project with low current and high-capacity requirements.

I still have not made a purchase from DX, and still apprehensive, given all the horror stories!

I buy from them all the time (or did when I had a job, and will again since I got one again ;)), and yeah, some of their items are worth what you pay for them, and service is scarce and hard to get. But if you can live with a little risk, a lot of pre-buy research, and a goodly amount of shipping delays, I think you can come out ahead most of the time.

But my mention of DX etc. was only based on where I'd seen those lights -- there's one or two US joints that sell cheap Chinese flashlights of the sort seen on DX, some with e.g. emitter upgrades as well, and those might be a better bet if they carry an appropriate light.

 

[hyperloop]

Was over at DX's site surfing the new arrivals and saw this light which you might want to just take a look at.