Small fuel cell batteries

[I_rv_too]

In this mornings paper (9/21), there is an article about a company building small fuel cells, for use charging cell phones, laptops and recharging other small batteries.

There are fuel cells currently in use in automobiles ... but these are supposed to be small portable fuel cells.

Anybody know anything about these? The company is saying they will be in full production in 2004.

Wonder two things ... when might they appear in flashlights? ... and when might they be used as a source of 12 volt power in RV's ... because, afterall, I_rv_too.

 

[Darell]

I hope Hotfoot jumps in here soon...

First off - while there *are* some fuel cells powering some vehicles, they are VERY few, and nobody owns them. Research only. Fuel cell powered vehicles are about 10 years out at best estimates. For many reasons, I'm not the biggest fuel cell fan that you'll find.

The small fuel cells have been talked about for years, and every time I hear about them, they are two years away. I've heard that for about five years now....

As a side note - fuel cells are approximately 50% as efficient as today's best rechargeable batteries.

 

[hotfoot]

Oh, its so heartwarming when someone remembers you like Darell does...

Well, no one can say better about fuel cells than the experts themselves, so here are some IMO good links to the subject at hand:

General fuel cell development news: Fuel Cell and Hydrogen News

Miniature Fuel Cells: Smart Fuel Cell

And a WIRED article talking about the manufacturer in that last link: WIRED Article

Not enough? Here's more tasty links:
Miniature Methanol Fuel Cell

More Fuel Cell News

If you do a Google search, tons of pages will pop up

 

[Darell]

Warming hearts is what I do best, Leo

I don't want to take this thread off-subject. If anybody is interested in what I think about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, please meet me over here: Darell's EV thread

Hint: I don't like them much.

 

[Darell]

Originally posted by hotfoot:
Well, no one can say better about fuel cells than the experts themselves

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read and read and read the articles. I hear phrases like "introduced to the market," I hear "used on sailing vessels and away from the grid." But where are these units? In what market may I buy them? I've been hearing the frenzy for about six years now....but I have yet to see a product brought to market. Did I miss where they're being sold?

I know I sound all snotty and negative. Really I'd be thrilled to see this technology succeed. It has many, many applications (one of them NOT being automotive, mind you). I'm just getting tired of hearing about how they'll be on the market "next year" or "in two years." For six years I've heard that they're "market ready" but haven't yet seen them available. What the heck is going on, do you suppose?

 

[hotfoot]

Originally posted by darell:
What the heck is going on, do you suppose?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Safety approvals?
Standards/Type classification and testing?
UL/CE Certification?
Patent applications?
Investigating legal ramifications?
Long-term reliability and safety testing?
Market study?
Securing sufficient mass-production capital?

Imagine what it could be like when the first portable cold-fusion powersource is introduced to the market...

 

[Darell]

Originally posted by hotfoot:
Imagine what it could be like when the first portable cold-fusion powersource is introduced to the market...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That'll be when the auto mfg's abandon fuel cells as being "a flop in the marketplace" and start to tell us that they'll have Autonomy II ready in another ten short years.

Good list, and you're probably right.

 

[I_rv_too]

Ok, so you can't believe everything you read in paper!

I thought it sounded kinda "too good to be true."

And as my dear sainted mother used to say, "if it sounds too good to be true, it's probably a crock of s***.

 

[MDM]

Here's a link to the article I believe you were referring to:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/810641.asp

 

[I_rv_too]

Yup, MDM. That's the same article. And it's a good read from the Associated Press.

Sure sounds like something they're on the edge of producing.

But then again, I understand how to "use" things, not "make" them.

The scary thing is I now always put the "I wonder if that will work in a flashlight" spin on everything I see or read.

 

[rlhess]

Two years ago, I saw a fuel cell production prototype at the National Association of Broadcasters convention that was supposed to replace the NiCd NiMH battery packs slapped on the back of pro (large-size) camcorders. This had two cannisters that were rechargeable in the field from a larger tank.

I don't recall seeing them last year. I forget their name off hand.

Interesting if you were a nature videographer in the jungles of Belieze!

Cheers,

Richard

 

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

When they have ones that run off kerosene and #2 diesel, THEN they'll be great for stuff like that.

With camping stoves the most common in the US is either propane oe white-gas (extra-filtered gasoline) but kerosene-burning units are available... ususally for people going where white-gas/gasoline/propane will not be available.

 

[Quickbeam]

This question came up a short time ago. There was an article in PC Mag about these. They run on a small replacable ampuole of methanol/water mix. Looks like these actually do have the potential to replace batteries - just a matter of production costs / safety / consumer acceptance / etc.

 

[I_rv_too]

Thanks guys!

I appreciate the responses. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[X-CalBR8]

I saw a cool little news blurb on the future of fuel cells a while back and they said that one of the biggest things holding fuel cells back for use in devices such as laptops and camcorders is that the airlines are giving them a LOT of trouble over them. Mostly it comes down to you not being allowed to bring anything flammable onboard a plane (methanol/etc.) and they believe that if fuel cells are made to go in laptops that everyone will be bringing their fuel onboard the planes to refill the fuel cells during the flight. So now many of the major electronics manufactures are trying to come up with solutions to pacify the airlines into not creating a lobbying nightmare just as soon as fuel cells are released in most consumer electronics. Who would have thought that the airlines of all people could carry so much clout? The sad part is that they could take years working out something that the airlines won’t have a hissy fit about. They said on camera that if fuel cells that they don’t approve of are released by the big electronics manufactures that they are prepared to lobby congress over it. I guess the major electronics manufactures must be taking them seriously about it considering how long they are taking in releasing what they have said many times is ready to be released.

I still like the idea of Super Capacitors over fuel cells anyway. Just plug them up for like 30 seconds to a minute and they are fully charged and ready to go. Even though they don’t carry nearly the capacity of a rechargeable NiCads, who cares if you can charge one of the suckers up in under a minute! I can’t wait to see them in common use in power drills and such and of course flashlights.