Smooth, even light output?

LEDagent

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
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1,487
Location
San Diego, California
Okay, i know NOTHING can compare to a Surefire, that is why i can't afford to have or operate one on Lithiums. Are there ANY lights out there that DON"T work off of Lithiums and AREN"T surefires that have smooth even beams? I'm getting REALLY tired of picking either tight beams, or scattered rings.
 
Well, I just picked up a Pelican M-11, rechargeable, and it has a nice, VERY tight hot spot type of beam...Pelican makes all sorts of different lights, that work really well, but you don't see alot of talk about them...

--dan
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
Are there ANY lights out there that DON"T work off of Lithiums and AREN"T surefires that have smooth even beams?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have found that the smoothest, most even beams are created by just about any light with a faceted reflector.

These obviously aren't in the class of light you are looking for, but I just picked up a Sam's Choice "Ultra Tough" rubber flashlight at Wal-Mart on clearance for 4.75 (3-D cells). I was ready to rip it apart for an LS conversion and found that they are actually very well constructed lights with a very bright even spot beam due to the faceted reflector. It produced such a nice beam I decided to keep one for around the house and got another for the project.

DP
 
The Princeton Tec rage (4 AAA) has a semi facted reflector. It still isn't really smooth like streamlight or Surefires, but it is the closest I have. The Streamlight 4 AA has a mirror reflector and rings. I wish Surefire would release a 4 AA light using the P60 lamp.
 
For low cost but smooth even beam, try Tec 40 with texturized reflector, don't get the narrow beam one which has a smooth reflector.

It uses PR lamp that you could get higher output PR lamp in the market easily.

I recommend rechargeable if you adopt higher output bulb. I like it so much that I bought a second one the day after I got the first.

Alan
 
If you don't mind a BIG flashlight, the Tektite Trek 6000 might be of interest.
It's a 9 watt powerhouse (using a faceted reflector) that has a very nice, bright, even beam. And it runs on ordinary "C" cells. If you can find a halogen bulb that runs on 6 "C" cells, it will undoubtedly become even brighter and whiter than it is now.

It is also 100% waterproof and can be used as a dive light.
 
Do faceted reflectors and textured reflectors give a smoother beam?
The Surefire E2 gives a nice smooth beam, but the reflector itself is not at all smooth. It actually makes sense once you think about it. If the reflector were pretty good optically (or a lens is good) there are rings in the image of a point source. If the optics are bad in the wrong way the rings are even brighter. I think surefire introduced the right kind of imperfections into the reflector is part of their strategy for making the beam smooth. I wonder what the lens is like? (haven't taken it apart.
Walter
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Walter:
......The Surefire E2 ......If the reflector were pretty good optically (or a lens is good) there are rings in the image of a point source. If the optics are bad in the wrong way the rings are even brighter. ........I wonder what the lens is like? (haven't taken it apart.
Walter
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I don't think that the E2 lens is supposed to come off at all, (outside the factory that is).

And please expand on the "rings in the image of a point source" - Walter, I don't understand, Sorry !

Anyone have any links to reflector design and behaviour ? Anyone ?

LightLover
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Lightlover: "please expand on 'rings in image of point source' " I'll give it a try. If I understood it better I would be able to give a better non-technical explanation.
In an ideal world, a camera taking a picture of a point source like a camera would give an image that is just a point. Thinks are not ideal though. Because of the wave nature of light and diffraction effects there is some blurring with the best camera lenses. The better the lens the better the image (the smaller the blurred spot and closer to a point). But, there are fundamental physical limits. A perfect f1.4 lens doesn't yield a perfect image, it just gives the best resolution an f1.4 lens can give. Your $500 Nikon lens won't give you the resolution of the 200 inch Mt. Palomar telescope. An f1.4 lens if it is very good will give a better image at f1.4 than at f16.

Now where do the rings come in. (Here's where I'll lose everybody including myself.)
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The diffraction of light and interference of light causes the rings. In a very good lens, the image of a point source will be a single bright spot with very faint rings around it. The worse the lens (or reflector), the worse the the 'aberrations' and the more pronounced those rings become.

In a flashlight, the point source is the filament -- the region where the light is produced. This forms an image or is projected onto what you are looking at. There are complications because the filament isn't really a point source and you probabably don't have the lens or reflector focused perfectly onto what you're looking at.

Mathematically, in one dimension, a graph of the image of a point source would be
( sin(x)/x )**2 or (sin(x)/x)*(sin(x)/x). This oscillates with smaller oscillations as you look away from the center.

Hey, I'm sorry that's not very clear. I'll look for a better explanation on the web.

What I do for a living is computational microscopy: we characterize the blurring of the microscope in 3-D then computationally remove the blurring. Optics can get complicated.

NASA would have a bit of material on designing reflectors
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Telescopes are a bit different from flashlights though. If you want to project a really tiny spot of light, put the bulb at the focus of the telescope. Flashlight reflector design is probably weird because you want to design an optimally bad reflector or lens to spread the light out nicely rather than put it all into the smallest possible spot.

Again, sorry I'm not clearer; it's late here (EST). Goodnight all.
Walter
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> These obviously aren't in the class of light you are looking for, but I just picked up a Sam's Choice "Ultra Tough" rubber flashlight at Wal-Mart on clearance for 4.75 (3-D cells). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have had 2 of these Sam's Choice 3D and I agree they are without a doubt the brightest 3D and best beam (Bright, White, Tight focus) that I have seen. Unfortunately the body is only a flimsy rubber or this would be my favorite light. I even tried dissecting it's reflector to use in a MagLite, but didn't have much luck on the first try. It is a great deal though at $4.75, I just picked up 2 more. Thanks for the tip.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
...I wish Surefire would release a 4 AA light using the P60 lamp.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Brock, i SOOOooo agree with that. From what i hear, Surefires are the shi* are here (in a good way). Man! if they made a alkaline version, i would be so on it in a second. Now THAT i wouldn't mind spending 80 bucks on.

...and about that flashlight from Wallmart, i think i'm gonna pick one up to replace my Energizer 4AAA light. The light and battery consumption on thing is REALLY bad.
 
Ok...I did some research on the Surefire 8NX. Overall it LOOKS like a good trade off in light output and runtime. 50 mins, @ 110 lumens??
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Sounds damn good to me. BUT...

On some posts there are a FEW complaints about the light. 1) about light output and 2) actuall runtime. Both complaints were proven to be defects which were fixed by Surefire...So.. What exactly does 110 Lumens look like? ..say, compared to a Maglight 4D or Streamlight Pro Polymer 4AA, as they are the only quality lights i've tested.

Is the 8NX brighter than any of these, or even a E2 rated @ 65 lumens? From what i heard the 8NX varies. So what is your opinion on this light?

Is 50 mins per battery, or 1hr 50min for both batteries more than enoegh light for searching for things?

..i have more questions...but i'll leave these to be answered first
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I have to agree with LEDagent. I don't own this light, but it appears (based upon discussions on the forums) to be one of the most problematic of the Surefire/Streamlight lights. Mostly due to defective parts.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
...So.. What exactly does 110 Lumens look like? ..say, compared to a Maglight 4D or Streamlight Pro Polymer 4AA, as they are the only quality lights i've tested.

Is the 8NX brighter than any of these, or even a E2 rated @ 65 lumens? From what i heard the 8NX varies. So what is your opinion on this light?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not quite the flashaholic as some members but I do own a Mag 3D, a Streamlight Polypro, an E2 and a 8AX(similar lamp/reflector assembly as 8NX).

I don't use the Mag at all anymore. It's big, bulky, has a yellow beam and is not even as bright as my E2 and I even prefer the output of the Streamlight Polypro to that of the mag (much whiter beam). So in order of brightness, it's the polypro, E2 and 8AX. Both the E2 and 8AX are much brighter then the mag. The polypro has lots of rings but the brighter spots in the middle are close to that of the E2 but the E2 has a larger, much more uniform center beam. The 8AX is slightly brighter then the E2 and has perhaps a half again bigger beam. Like the E2, the beam is very uniform.

The 8AX is my favorite and most used, mostly because of it's rechargeability. It produces more then ample light for any household duty. I wouldn't recommend it for any search and rescue however. When the batteries die, they die rather abruptly and I do just get the 50 minutes runtime out of them. For around the house, that's not a problem as I keep the second one charged up.

The E2 is a very handy light also, due to it's size. It's way brighter then the mag and slips into the pocket easily. Some people even use it as a daily pocket light although I think it's a bit big for that.

I put lithium AA's in the Polypro and have thrown the light under the car seat where I suspect it will reside there for several years. It has saved my butt already for one flat tire change in the rain and for giving someone a jump start the very same night in the rain.
 

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