Some Pilot Feedback on NVG Compatible Lights

[Birmingham47]

I'm looking for some recommendations and feedback from those who use LED lighting with Night Vision Goggles. This is what I have experienced from flying with NVG's myself and some feedback from Pilots who have come into my store.

- First and foremost never use red.
- Green and blue are preferred but white is used for better color acuity and for preflight.
- Green can be too monochromatic with the NVGs.
- Blue is brighter and works great when you highlight routes on a map. When using a yellow or orange highlighter on a map with a blue LED the highlighted route "jumps" from the map.
- Blue can however make it hard to see water depictions on a map.
- There is a fine line between being NVG compatible and being too bright for the cockpit. (ie-the PALight Survival light's dim setting is perfect but the bright setting make Instructor Pilots angry)
- Preferred lights in order
1. PALight Survival
2. INOVA X1
3. CMG/Gerber task Light (Too bad they stopped the greens and blues)
4. LED Lenser

OK Does anyone else have any favorite lights for aviation or recommendations for NVG ops?

 

[markdi]

I thought nigh vision goggles were mono cromatic
like green

 

[pjandyho]

How about the Surefire M1 infra emitter? Does it work very well to suit your purpose? I don't own one so I can't commend much.

 

[FlyUSArmy]

For those non-pilots out there, the point of the light is to see in the cockpit, underneath the NVGs. The NVGs are focused at infiniti and you look through them at the outside world. To see in the cockpit at your instruments and papers, you look under the NVGs with your bare eyes.

Just about every Army NVG pilot I know uses a liplight of some sort, there are several models out there. It mounts to the microphone of your helmet (or headset) and you turn it on or off with a pushbutton switch at the back you activate with your lip. Mine has 3 greeen leds and provides plenty of light to read the checklist or use my kneeboard. I have also seen models that have two green leds and a seperately selectable white one.

I often used and still have a mini-mag with a filter on it specifically for NVG use, in a blue-green color.

The very 1st LED light I bought was for NVG use - probably about 8 years ago when an led light was unheard of and rare. I still have it - it was by a company called LEDTronics. You could buy lights from them in about 10 different LED colors and they specified the wavelength. Its a mini-mag sized light. Mine has 6 blue-green leds - I flew with it for a long time, kept it on a lanyard around my neck and would often just leave it on and drop it between my legs when not needing the light. Really I used this light more as an observer/gunner than I did as the pilot flying. I found it really to be brighter than I wanted though, and wished I had bought the 3 led model that was also available. Less light is generally better with NVGs.

I have never used a white light with NVGs, but I suppose if it was dim enough you could.

For preflight, always a white light though.

I no longer am flying an NVG airframe, and now I always fly with a Surefire A2 using just the leds in the cockpit.

 

[Birmingham47]

Flyusarmy,
Some good points, but we're seeing some changes and trends that differ greatly from what we did in the past. Allot coming from AAR coments from Afghan and Iraq. Lip lights are falling out of favor now. When left on, they provide a good targeting point. Finger lights aren't selling much either. Reasons: too easy to lose, batteries don't last long and are hard to find when deployed. White and blue are taking over from green. You are correct, the white needs to be dim, but it is NVG compatible. PS What do you fly?

Markdi,
The NVGs are monocromatic, mostly green or a mix between yellow and green in newer models. That's the reason some of the pilots don't like the green. Somehow it messes with there head. It's really just personal preference. It never bothered me.

We are also seeing more lights sold that run on easy to obtain alkaline batteries. It's more of a logistical issue of obtaining lithiums or watch batteries when you're in bad guy country.

 

[Ninja]

[ QUOTE ]
FlyUSArmy said:
I no longer am flying an NVG airframe, and now I always fly with a Surefire A2 using just the leds in the cockpit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess you use the white A2... I'm looking forward to the U2.

 

[Blue_Skies]

Good stuff. I'm curious, what color of light do you use when not using NVGs? I've been flying with a red A2 and a green X5 for backup. I like the A2, although it would be nice if it had red AND green LEDs that I could switch colors depending on the application.

Hey FlyUSArmy, is the Army looking for pilots?

 

[Birmingham47]

OK - I've got some VALUABLE feedback on the Surefire A2. When I first picked one up, I though this could be a serious problem and it has been proven right. The switch mechanism for the A2 is not designed well for an NVG cockpit.
Here's why.
Let's say I'm flying with NVG's and using my A2 with its NVG compatible Blue or Green LED. (White LED is too bright) I accidently push the button too far and activate the extremely bright center light. Instant NVG shutdown or white-out. Not a good thing.

Blue Skies,
Even when not using NVGs we use blue or green. But my civilian pilot customers prefer red as you do. And yes, the army is always looking for pilots. How do you feel about rotary wing?

 

[FlyUSArmy]

I have a white A2. I agree it is often too bright and wind up holding the head of it in my hand and just letting part of the light out from between my fingers.

However, I disagree with your feedback regarding accidental activation of the main bulb. Its a lock out tail cap. Unscrew it a turn and you can turn on ONLY the LEDs by pushing the button. If you want constant on, well then I guess you just better not press the button after you have screwed in the tail cap.

 

[Birmingham47]

FlyArmy,
I had never backed up the lock out far enough to realize that feature. It's a good point. I simply read the instructions and followed, it doesn't mention it.

It reads:
"The Lockout position disables the tailcap pushbutton switch and is suggested to avoid accidental light activation during storage . From the momentary-on position, rotate the tailcap approximately one and one half turns counterclockwise to lock the light in the off position ."

The position you're refering to is in between the momentary on and the lock out position. I wonder if that is a biproduct or a designed feature. Since it's not in the instructions (And I can't find it on their website), seems to be a biproduct. Good catch FlyArmy. I'll pass the info to my customers. Thanks

I would still feel more comfortable with a safety mechanism on it. Here's the situation I received feedback on.

A senior pilot was using an A2 on a multi-ship operation. He had the aviator around his neck on a lanyard and in the on position for LEDs (Green). On short final to the PZ for a slingload, he leaned forward to hit target store on the GPS and the A2 got stuck in between his radio pocket on the Air-Save vest. The button was depressed further and the main lamp came on. Result: NVG White Out

Surefire is monitoring this post and has informed me of a soon to be released product. I hope they will also at least address my concern for a safety mechanism. I'll leave it to them to anounce or PM me that I can anounce it.

 

[Blue_Skies]

Thanks Andy, I'd love to fly helos but unfortunately it looks like I missed the age cut-off point by a year -I just turned 31. Dang.

 

[Birmingham47]

Blue skies,
There are waivers for that. If you're serious, submit a packet and make the board tell you no. Don't listen to what the recruiter said or what the "Official" word is on the website. I know several guys who got age and vision waivers. Primarily because they already had aviation experience.

Well, surefire said I could put this out. The new product I was refering to earlier in the post is a new A2 with a yellow/green hue in the LED's that's specifically designed for use with NVG's. From the sound of it it's probably designed to work with the newer ANVIS NVG's.

 

[Birmingham47]

I mentioned in the first post that the PALight Survival has been a popular NVG compatible light. General aviation and most military aviation units have been pleased. However, the nifty always-on glow is not a good thing for E&E (Escape/Evation). In a recent exercise, one unit brought this feedback.

The always on glow made it easy to find pilots. (Good thing if friends find you, bad thing if others do) They tried to fix it by simply dropping it in their shirt (w/Lanyard), but it leaked through button holes etc.

Does anyone have a simple mode for this? (Not duck tape) Something more permanent and easy to use. Maybe some sort of flip cap etc.

 

[sotto]

On my PAL eLight Survivalight, you can simply turn off the glow mode entirely by pressing the button and holding it down for a couple seconds. Same thing to toggle it back on.

 

[Birmingham47]

Thanks sotto.
Unfortunately, Palight is discontinueing their elight (As well as everything else other than the Survival). I'd also like to come up with something for those that already have the survival.