Space Needle II 2nds...

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[ QUOTE ]
PhotonBoy said:
You could put a positive spin on it by calling it 'military green-white', 'camouflage green-white', 'phosphor green-white' or even 'Luxeon green-white'

[/ QUOTE ]

I now call my MadMax Minimag "menthol".
(Space Needle II, now available in Menthol!)
 
I'd say sell the emiters. I'm sure there's a lot of people that would buy them esp. if you could sell them for cheaper than what future/etc has for.
 
Same ? as keithhr... What is the bin coding on these emitters? If they're W's I would almost definitely be interested in one (of the emitters, if you're willing to sell, please?) purley for the lumens output, as I haven't found any other W's anywhere...
 
Charlie -- perhaps I ought to repeat the gist of my earlier e-mail so that you have all your responses on this one thread:

A little bit of green is quite acceptable. What I like about your lights is the brightness and the quality of construction. So if they're still W flux bin, I want one.

The pewter body looks best to me, but any color is good.

BTW, adding to what PhotonBoy & shankus said about naming the color of the greenish Luxeon, I'd like to suggest "lime glow." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Hi guys,

Sheesh, I go away for not even one day and all these responses, great! On the subject of Bin Coding and brightness and whiteness, please gather 'round and let me tell you a little story:

I was the first to publicly disclose which Luxeon Bin Code ratings were going into my mods. That unfortunately kinda put some strain on ElektroLumens and others, even my good buddy Lambda, because now they could not sell and distribute mods using Luxeons straight off the reel (many were greenish and dim, reflecting Lumileds' abhorrent QC problems).

And as I got into more and more mods using more and more reels of emitters, I came to the realization anyway that "all that glitters is not gold", not label-wise, anyway. I learned not to be so hung up on the label numbers because Lumileds' own in-house system of checks and balances is absolutely terrible, even to this day. For example, in the 1W batwings I have received reels of Q4H that were not nearly as bright nor as white as the current reel of P4Js I am using. The 1W reel I have now is a real treasure, and really should have been binned a step or two higher. Conversely, I have received reels of even lower-binned Luxeons in which there were some emitters that could have been as high as R-rated! It is common knowledge among the more prolific modders that Lumileds indeed sells "mixed bags" of Luxeons, all on the same reel with one label.

The reel I have now is probably the most consistent I have seen from Lumileds in a long time. Every single one has tested at "threshold" or better (my own relative-measurement gate through which a Luxeon must pass in order to be used in the LGI; my reputation as a modder depends on this). This keeps my costs down, as in the past I had to sell off cheaply or destroy in leading edge experiments, those emitters that did not make it.

Hopefully what I just shared with you will make you realize that the Bin Code labeling is just that -- a gimmicky and sticky piece of paper slapped on by a human at a factory. Once that label is affixed there are no cross-checks, and that is why, to this very day, I still test Every Single Luxeon before use.

Of course, all the other (pre bin-disclosure) modders probably now hate me...

With that said, let me go into 5W Luxeons:

The 1W is a "more mature" product. The 5W is still really brand-new and Lumileds has still not yet even got a real firm handle on the 1Ws as far as consistency. The 5W HD Luxeons I have now were sold to me as W-binned emitters, but the W only indicates brightness and then only driven at spec at that. Overdriving them erases that label and starts up a whole new ball game; and as most here know, overdriving is what I have always preferred to do. The second number, the "2", SHOULD have been slightly greenish-white anyway, with the "3" indicating a whiter beam and the "4" and "5" going into blue-white and violet-ish. But due to the luck-of-the-draw Lumileds QC as described above, the last batch of 5W HDs I received were indeed very, very white, and probably should have been binned W3 or even better.

Actually only two or three out of all the dozens of SNIIs ever built have broken the 7,000 lux barrier (that 6,850 one of mine did also, with the addition of a UCL lens), but what most people do not understand is that the unaided human eye will never discern the up-to-2,000 lux difference between a 7000 lux light and one that makes "only" 5000 lux. What the eye REALLY picks up on is the color, although that is usually only obvious when a whiter light is turned on next to it, side by side.

So to answer the obvious question, no, these lights will not be 7,000 lux lights (wish I had never gotten a light meter as people tend to get hung up on numbers, which is why statisticians can actually make a living), but you would never be able to tell unless you went out and bought a light meter. They will be blazingly bright and light up things at distances from which many incendescent lights cannot. And they will still appear very white when compared to incandescent flashlights.

And finally, due to the beamshaping characteristics of the 5W HD and Mag reflector combination, lighting things up at distance will be amazing. From the 7000+ down to the 5000 lights (and all the ones in between), the throw will be virtually the same, regardless of the lux readings.

Also, swapping out these Luxeons for whiter ones is only a half-hour job if and when I am able to get some. This would be at my cost plus shipping, so depending upon what I have to pay for the next Luxeons (usually $25 up to $30 for select examples), figure about $30-$35 for a Luxeon swap shipped back to you. In the meantime you still have a very bright 5W mod to lord over all your Flashoholic friends...

But the final sinker in this whole dissertation is that these Space Needle II "2nds" are now all spoken for. Seems there were enough of us who were less concerned with absolute color and the numbers game with respect to the falsely-hallowed "Bin Code" sticker, and they immediately e-mailed and grabbed all of the upcoming SNII 2nds that I will be able to build anyway.

But thanks for your support and attention to this thread; hopefully we have all been provided a different and more knowledgeable (from my actual hands-on experience) perspective from which to gauge our future purchasing decisions.

As always, I humbly remain
 
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since I was one of the lucky ones, I had a thought or two. Many people have indicated that cyan or green leds seem brighter than similar output white ones. Isn't there a chance that these lights that seem more green compared to the bluish cast of the last batch of spaceneedles II's might appear to be a bit brighter just because of their Hue.
In addition, I wanted to thank Charlie for his excellent and forthright explanation that went above and beyond the call of honesty for being frank with us. It allows us to have maybe a better appreciation for what in my eyes is becoming a bit of an art form. Maybe that is a bit of an embellishment but it seems like there has to be a lot of good judgement,savvy, as well as technical expertise to consistently put these together and be something that he is
obviously proud to build to his standard.
 
Charlie, your offering to replace the offcolor lamps later at cost, and your up-frontness about everything shows you're completely a class act. You're handling the issue perfectly as far as I can tell.

I'm kinda terrified of a direct drive Luxeon though. Any current limiting depends on the internal resistance of the batteries, right? What happens if battery chemistry improves and some future shipment of some brand of CR123's puts twice as much current through the LED? Should I worry about this? I'd feel safer with a resistor and a little less output, like a Blaster VI (but I like the 2C Mag host better than the larger Blaster VI body). I'm sure you've had this conversation with yourself as well, and considered it more deeply and with better information than I have, in deciding to go direct drive. So I wonder what your thoughts and conclusions were.
 
I'd say that if a new type of battery comes out, all bets are off. Same reason I do not recommend lithiums in the LGI Classic.

Because of this new LED lighting technology, the Luxeon swapping offer should be thought of as a kind of extremely long-term "bulb change", if you will. With the introduction of better formulated and even the completely new synthetic automobile oils such as Mobil-1, the old drill of changing your car's engine oil every 3,000 miles has now been extended to 7,500, and 15,000, and probably soon beyond (per mfr's recommendations, and keep in mind they have their warranties to worry about). In fact my wife's ML320 did not indicate its first oil change was necessary until 12,000+ miles, from when we picked up the car initially. And this was back in 2000...
 
Yeah, I'm not asking as much about a new type of battery, as what happens if the old type of battery quietly improves (you buy a new box of batteries and boom! Your led burns out. At least it's repairable though). Think of present-day AA alkaline batteries, which have around 2x the capacity of AA alkalines of the exact same make and model from 15 years ago. The manufacturers just steadily improve things without making a big fuss.

On another subject I wonder if you saw my suggestion of a "Cyberspace needle" and if you think it's crazy. The idea is take an SN2, and remove the Mag power switch assembly and replace it by a power mosfet between the battery and the bulb. Enlarge the hole where the pushbutton used to be. Now take a Photon 3 keychain light and remove its LED and glue it into the enlarged pushbutton hole in the SN2. Wire the Photon LED output to the mosfet gate so that the Photon pushbuttons control the SN2 output. This immediately gives you a PWM dimmable SN2 with various strobe modes, an auto-off timer, and all those other Photon 3 features that are sort of useless in a keychain light but maybe of some value in something like an SN2 (like the SOS signal). The same mod could be applied to other Luxeon lights as well (EL...).

More radical would be to custom develop a microcontroller board and firmware for the SN2 and similar lights (maybe it could be built into a dat2zip-like board for regulated lights), but that would be a lot more work than this Photon hack, which I think is doable by the average modder.

Any thoughts?
 
Charlie –

Wow! Your reply to our humming and hawwing is right on target for me. Sharing your experiences about the practicalities of bin coding and its interpretation has been an eye opener. (I can’t believe how much I have learned since coming CPF.)

I want to thank you for your candor in discussing what you expect and don’t expect from this run of Space Needles. But I’m not terribly surprised. From what I have read in the archives, openness is just your way of doing things.

And thank you for offering a swap out “bulb change” at a later date. I have for some time wondered what I might do if I had a Space Needle and later wanted a new Luxeon. I wondered how to get the old one out, how to clean the heatsink, how to properly secure the new one, and about a number of issues beyond my capability. Your offer relieves me from this worry lurking in the back of my head.
 
Regarding paulr's idea of various strobe modes, etc. I wonder if the LED will take all that switching on and off. Wouldn't there be a lot of thermal/mechanical stresses induced on the grid or whatever it's called? I think a lot of rapid switching (particularly if the light is stone cold) would be bad for it, reducing its overall lifetime. Are there any recommendations or cautions on this point from Lumileds?
 
paulw, thanks.

paulr, I agree with photonboy -- not sure how much the photon switch is designed to take, but am confident the engineers did not exactly have three 123 lithiums in mind. I have already burned out enough parts/Luxeons in my short time here -- you are welcome to do this project. Please let us know...
 
I think Photonboy is concerned about thermal stress on the Luxeon from flashing it. I'd hope that with PWM dimming, the led would run cooler than with continuous drive. I'd like to try doing the mod sometime, so I'll put it in with my list of other projects that aren't getting done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
 
I'm one of the lucky ones!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Gotta dash out now and get my Money Order bought!!!!

YEEHAW!!!!
 
I like the idea of using a Photon III this way. I don't think the Photons' switch would be an issue, since it would only be supplying gate voltage to a mosfet.

Also I'd like to comment on the Space Needle II "seconds" going for $80 as opposed to $120. What a great deal. It seems the equivalent of getting a colored light of the same kind for 33% less. You can't be any more fair than that. (maybe it's too fair) I can't wait to do business with you myself.
 
I just went over to pick up my SNII from Charlie tonight and met him for the first time. Just let me say that he is such a cool and friendly guy. We chatted for about an hour and he showed me his lights and talked shop about his lights and how he makes them. He took the time to explain how the mag body provided a good heatsink and how he thermal epoxied the Luxeon to the body and this should provide for a long life. The newer mags that he's using has a new switch that is much easier to press (I really like it compared to my older versions).I'm glad I got in on this buy, let me tell you if you haven't seen one yet, the craftsmanship is first class. We compared a 3cell P91 and the P91 had a bigger more broad beam and lit up a bigger area but with the focusing mag reflector the SNII can provide a tighter hotspot and will out distance the P91. Very impressive considering the P91 will only last about 20 min and the SNII should last about 2 hours at near constant brighness. The color is greenish and that was evident when shown next to a good white Luxeon, but regardless I'll make good use of this and can eventually upgrade when better ones become available. The 1W Luxeons don't stand a chance against this guy. I would have never imagined that a LED could outshine an incandecent, I can't wait till the 10W comes along. thanks alot and keep em' coming Mr Bulk.
 

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