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xHAMx

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
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Hello I have been lurking around for awhile now and have been looking for a new light and have had little success. So im kind of a noob and just decided to copy and paste the questions. So here we go.


1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.

__X__I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :-)

____Less than $25.
____Less than $50.
____Less than $100.
____Less than $150.
____Less than $300.
____I have no limit.
____I’m flexible, tell me what you gotJ.
__X__Other, please specify <$100 but if most criteria are meet ill go up too $125

3) Format:

__X__I want a flashlight.
____I want a headlamp.
____I want a lantern.
____I want a dive light.
____I want a portable spotlight.


4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

____Keychain size.
____Every day carry small (2-4 inches).
__X__Every day carry medium (4-7 inches).
____Holster carry.
____Big enough to need its own travel caseJ.
____I don’t care.
____I don’t know.
____N/A


5) Emitter/Light source:

____LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.
__X__I dont care if other citeria are met

6) Manufacturer:

__X__I want to buy a light from a traditional mass producing manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
__X__I would consider getting a light that is pieced together (for example a “host” or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a “drop-in” emitter from another source). Under the right circumstances, this path can provide more options to the consumer to meet specific needs, and can often be easily upgradeable as technology improves.


7) What battery type do you want to use?
18650 for longer light size and better out put... willing to try others tho.
____I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today’s most powerful lights)
____I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
____I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
____I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).
I really want something at a min of 500 lumens more is far prefered tho
____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
____I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
__X__I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
____I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.
i would like as much throw as possible but inbetween 100-150 is fine too
____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
__X__150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
__X__30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
____90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
____3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase “you get what you pay for” is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A “night-stand” light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
__X__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't care.
____I don’t know.


12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):
i would like something like the ld20 or quark aa^2 with the clicky and twisty willing to try something new dont want a body switch perferred 1 hand operation
____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
__X__I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
__X__I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today’s high end lights).
____I don't care.
____I don’t know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.
multiple levels with a low setting at is under 5 lumens lower is better beacon is not required but preferred strobe is almost required programmable would be nice not required
____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
____I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
__X__I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
__X__I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
__X__I want a strobe mode. (Blinks to show location.)
____I want SOS mode.
__X__I want a beacon mode.
____I don’t care.
____I don’t know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
____Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today’s flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
__X__I don’t care.
____I don’t know.
____Other, please specify____________.


15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.
pocket clip is preferred
____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____“Hybrid” light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
__X__Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments

Im looking for something that can actually be pocket carried no super large emitter head. I really liked the mh2c from nitecore but the low is 39 lumens far too high but if nothing else is found it will probly be my choice. This would be a primary light and i would carry it almost everyday except when it would be too heavy/large for what i wear. I have only a few other lights but am becoming a flashaholic with a ld20, preon 2, quark mini aa, and i lost a stylus pro :(. Anyway if you have other questions about stuff i left out feel free to ask and thanks in advance.
-xHAMx
 
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:welcome:

Just be aware that your first three post go into the moderation queue, this thread was posted three times.

Norm
 
Maybe a Jetbeam rrt01 would work for you, some info here;
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?334780-Jetbeam-RRT-01

Pretty cool light i like the low mode i think is sd .005 lumens very nice but im looking for a longer light like 6in. or so (i feel they are more comfortable to carry) maybe something that uses a 18650 cell i really really like the mh2c but the low is just too much (39 lumens) and dont feel like carrying a 2nd light just to keep a decent low mode im kinda looking for lights similar in size to ld20 or mh2c or that kinda size sorry about being so complicated not sure if many/any lights meet my requirements

not sure how to add a 2nd quote but sorry about the many posts when i went to post the first it said i didnt have permission and prompted me to log in even tho i was logged on and happened again
 
Thanks for the ideas but i think im liking the eagletac d25lc2 clicky but i have no clue which led to try to get with it or batteries or charger would be best for output/runtime any recommendations? or could you lead me to a thread that has the differences and pros/cons for batteries and leds? or something thanks
-xHAMx
 
For 18650's fastTech sells Panasonic 2900mah batteries at a great price, they have 3400mah too but they don't always fit lights.
the Nitecore V2 Intellacharger is affordable and carried by a lot of vendors.

For the emitter, an XML if you want a floody light that is really good for 30 feet or less. Xpg2 is a little more throwy and a much tighter hotspot. Good to ranges upwards of 50 feet, you'll see the light go further but small bezels aren't throwers.
 
Or consider the Klarus XT11, takes a single 18650 or two CR, or, RCR123's...600 - 850 lumens depending on which cells you use, and the 3400 mah Eageltac cells fit, etc. The 3400 mah Xtar 18650 cells are pretty tight though...closer to 18700.

Its an XML U2 LED, so it has a FLOODY beam with ~ 150 meter range.

For even less $, the Crelant 7G6CS is similar in performance, mostly brighter, and with better range, but also includes infinite brightness, as in, you can let the light ramp up/down to whatever output you want...instead of having just a high-med-lo arrangement, etc.

The difference is mostly that the XT11 can be dropped from a 20' window and hit the ground still lit (Happened), and the Crelant might break (Might not, never dropped one that far...). I HAVE dropped Crelants from ~ 3-6' w/o them breaking, so its still a sturdy light. The aluminum is very thick, etc.

The Armytek Viking is very sturdy, a bit more $, but very well made. The Viking X has a very strong (~750 L) floody beam good for ~ 200 meters, and the Viking S (With the XPG2) has little flood, but, another 100 meters of range or so. The Predator is even more $, and throws ~ 400 meters or so.
 
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I know I limit myself, for throw, pretty good by saying this but I dont really want emitter heads that large. Im looking for something good for pocket carry unless you can recommend a way for carry thats not obivous (like holster) maybe I could put it in my cargo pockets...(I wear cargo pants a lot). Anyway im looking for something that can throw a realistic 150yds and still be carried. To me other lights list here have too large of emitter heads I would probably go up to like very very very max 30mm emitter head...not sure if what im asking for is possible for a light to do but thanks for the help!
-xHAMx
 
30mm head and a 150 yards? An XPE2 with a smooth reflector would do it.
If you could get an Armytek Predator with an xpg2 or xpe2, it'd probably be perfect for you.

alternatively there are modded lights like
http://www.onestopthrowshop.com/OSTS-R5-OSTSR5.htm

or have a P60 xpe2 in a smooth reflector driven at 2 or more amps, VinhNyugen makes them. In a Surefire 6pd, or a Solarforce L2N would work.
 
for the armytek predator it claims its throws 400 meters and viking s claims 250 meters is it safe to say that most claims can be halved to get a usable throw distance? and why is it lower lumen leds like xpg2 throws (according to armtek) 400 meters at 670 lumens and the xml with 740 lumens throws (according to armytek) 210 meters i understand the lumens is total output and lux is (i think) intensity i would think more light would mean more lux and i understand that it also has to do with te reflector for lux but with the same light except for led i would think more light = more throw? for the p60 does it matter what host? i looked aroudn at batteries and charger prices....i dont have any 18650 lights/batteries or cr123 and i dont want to spend over $100 really so i think im outa luck for now :scowl: unless a p60 drop in and host are like 60-70 i might end up getting a nitecore mh2c for now as a nice flood light (uses 18650s but is rechargeable has built in micro usb charger) for a p60 and drop in are the drop ins ussually multimode with strobe? or no strobe? or depends? thanks for enlighting me so far
-xHAMx
 
for the armytek predator it claims its throws 400 meters and viking s claims 250 meters is it safe to say that most claims can be halved to get a usable throw distance?

and why is it lower lumen leds like xpg2 throws (according to armtek) 400 meters at 670 lumens and the xml with 740 lumens throws (according to armytek) 210 meters

i understand the lumens is total output and lux is (i think) intensity i would think more light would mean more lux and i understand that it also has to do with te reflector for lux but with the same light except for led i would think more light = more throw?

for the p60 does it matter what host?


i looked aroudn at batteries and charger prices....i dont have any 18650 lights/batteries or cr123 and i dont want to spend over $100 really so i think im outa luck for now :scowl: unless a p60 drop in and host are like 60-70 i might end up getting a nitecore mh2c for now as a nice flood light (uses 18650s but is rechargeable has built in micro usb charger) for a p60 and drop in are the drop ins ussually multimode with strobe? or no strobe? or depends? thanks for enlighting me so far
-xHAMx

Well, throw for the ANSI standard is based upon the distance at which the lux on target has dropped to 0.25 lux.

For usable long range use though, 0.25 lux is pretty dim...and 1-2 lux is closer to what you'd need to see anything way out there.

If you want to know the range a light will hit 1 lux at, just take the square root of the cd, and that's the meters to reach 1 lux.

-----


The reason a 300 lumen light can sometimes out throw a 1,000 lumen light, is because the way a beam is formed and sent out to the target is complicated.

The main concept is effective surface brightness of the source...which tends to mean in practice that a smaller LED will tend to have a more focused/tight beam.

A laser beam is a perfect example...its ALL throw, but, not much light to SEE WITH...a teeny (yet bright) dot on something far away. You might see the dot of light itself, but, nothing illuminated by the dot.


Similarly, a 300 lumen light might project a small circle of light on a target 300 meters away if its 300 lumens are from a small LED, say an XPG2, that allows the beam to be very concentrated, more laser like, etc.

A 1,000 lumen light might use a larger LED, say an XML 2 U3, that makes a very large circle of light, but, the light that covers a wide area might not project over 200 meters, and not reach the 300 M the XPG2 reached, etc.

So, the XML might light up two end to end foot ball fields completely, sidelines, yardage chalk lines, end zones, etc...but not light up the third field past the second's end zone....

And the XPG might light up the goal posts of the THIRD field, but you can't see the side lines or chalk lines or the first two fields, etc.

------------


The other concept is that lumens are what the light pumps out..the total output (All those photons...).

You can't SEE lumens.

Lux is essentially the light that bounces back at your eyes from the target...think of it as how bright the TARGET looks.


If I take 1,000 lumens, and make them march straight out of the light in a tight column...I WILL have a lot of lux when the light HITS something....as all the lumens are hitting a small area.

If I take the same lumens, and spread them out over a wide area, its still 1,000 L, but, the lux drops as I am hitting each square inch, etc..of all those targets with a smaller proportion of the total lumens.

That means I can shine 300 L at a square foot, and if all 300 L are hitting that square foot, it will look brighter than if I took 1,000 L, but spread them out over many square feet...so only say 100 L actually hit any given square foot...etc.

Does that make sense?

:D
 
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4 pack eneloop w charger $20 (they sell one from sanyo with the eneloops)
4 pack eneloop $10
Nitecore EA4 $70 (available in both cool and neutral)

Meets most needs though it might be a little fat. Bout the size of 1 and a half D batteries.

Leaves you $25 for a nice little AA light as well.
 
TEEJ, I really liked your football field analogy. Made this lumens/lux ,flood/throw simple to understand. I certainly know the difference, but this made it very "visual" /MK
 
for the armytek predator it claims its throws 400 meters and viking s claims 250 meters is it safe to say that most claims can be halved to get a usable throw distance? and why is it lower lumen leds like xpg2 throws (according to armtek) 400 meters at 670 lumens and the xml with 740 lumens throws (according to armytek) 210 meters i understand the lumens is total output and lux is (i think) intensity i would think more light would mean more lux and i understand that it also has to do with te reflector for lux but with the same light except for led i would think more light = more throw? for the p60 does it matter what host? i looked aroudn at batteries and charger prices....i dont have any 18650 lights/batteries or cr123 and i dont want to spend over $100 really so i think im outa luck for now :scowl: unless a p60 drop in and host are like 60-70 i might end up getting a nitecore mh2c for now as a nice flood light (uses 18650s but is rechargeable has built in micro usb charger) for a p60 and drop in are the drop ins ussually multimode with strobe? or no strobe? or depends? thanks for enlighting me so far
-xHAMx

The larger the led, the floodier the light, you can compensate with a larger reflector. The current throw king is made by saahblaster and he used an aspheric lens to achieve throw, 800k lux.
For a smaller light to achieve throw you need a small led like the Xpe and xpg.
Not all companies fib there throw numbers, that's why a lot of us wait till reviews are done and posted before buying.

The p60 host does matter, in that some are machined better than others, Solarforce is the only budget p60 host I trust.
Surefire, malkoff and Elzetta are high quality hosts.

You could get a Solarforce dropin and host from Solarforce saleshk, for under $50, but it won't be driven as hard as a custom made dropin from vinhNyugen or Nailbender. Your probably better off with the Nitecore, if your still new to all this.
I have the Ec25 and love it so much that I ordered the Ea4 and P25 from fastTech. I'm looking forward to The Ea8 and Srt7 coming out in a few months
 
4 pack eneloop w charger $20 (they sell one from sanyo with the eneloops)
4 pack eneloop $10
Nitecore EA4 $70 (available in both cool and neutral)

Meets most needs though it might be a little fat. Bout the size of 1 and a half D batteries.

Leaves you $25 for a nice little AA light as well.

I have looked at it before...and I think it is just the right size for edc pocket carry. :p Thanks but Im more worried about actually carrying it vs what it could do and I already have a beloved preon 2 and quark mini aa for light carry (I like the preon because it has a longer profile and is held more comfortable vs a shorter light like the mini aa)

Well, throw for the ANSI standard is based upon the distance at which the lux on target has dropped to 0.25 lux.

For usable long range use though, 0.25 lux is pretty dim...and 1-2 lux is closer to what you'd need to see anything way out there.

If you want to know the range a light will hit 1 lux at, just take the square root of the cd, and that's the meters to reach 1 lux.

-----


The reason a 300 lumen light can sometimes out throw a 1,000 lumen light, is because the way a beam is formed and sent out to the target is complicated.

The main concept is effective surface brightness of the source...which tends to mean in practice that a smaller LED will tend to have a more focused/tight beam.

A laser beam is a perfect example...its ALL throw, but, not much light to SEE WITH...a teeny (yet bright) dot on something far away. You might see the dot of light itself, but, nothing illuminated by the dot.


Similarly, a 300 lumen light might project a small circle of light on a target 300 meters away if its 300 lumens are from a small LED, say an XPG2, that allows the beam to be very concentrated, more laser like, etc.

A 1,000 lumen light might use a larger LED, say an XML 2 U3, that makes a very large circle of light, but, the light that covers a wide area might not project over 200 meters, and not reach the 300 M the XPG2 reached, etc.

So, the XML might light up two end to end foot ball fields completely, sidelines, yardage chalk lines, end zones, etc...but not light up the third field past the second's end zone....

And the XPG might light up the goal posts of the THIRD field, but you can't see the side lines or chalk lines or the first two fields, etc.

------------


The other concept is that lumens are what the light pumps out..the total output (All those photons...).

You can't SEE lumens.

Lux is essentially the light that bounces back at your eyes from the target...think of it as how bright the TARGET looks.


If I take 1,000 lumens, and make them march straight out of the light in a tight column...I WILL have a lot of lux when the light HITS something....as all the lumens are hitting a small area.

If I take the same lumens, and spread them out over a wide area, its still 1,000 L, but, the lux drops as I am hitting each square inch, etc..of all those targets with a smaller proportion of the total lumens.

That means I can shine 300 L at a square foot, and if all 300 L are hitting that square foot, it will look brighter than if I took 1,000 L, but spread them out over many square feet...so only say 100 L actually hit any given square foot...etc.

Does that make sense?

:D

Yes so enlighten me on candlepower (please)?
and do you have any recommendations for lights?
after all this and learning more about throwers and edc lights and Im thinking I dont need an edc thrower... I think i just want a bright light with good/reasonable throw for an edc like 75m or soo with a nice low (<5 lumens)....Im stuck on the mh2c tho...and the low is just soo high...Would there be a way to bring down a low or is it just stuck as it is? thanks a lot
-xHAMx
 

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