Surefire 6P White Luxeon Module.

Candle Power Forums

Help Support Candle Power:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go, Go Gadget Flashlight:
[QB]I don't think so, KenB!
wink.gif

Nice try.
smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Mike, you don't mean me do you? Or you talking about KenB in Fla...this one is from Ohio...Or is he "oranging" around//
smile.gif
 
It's been a little while since I've reviewed SEPIC, but I remember thinking at the time "Hey, THAT's the way to go!" -- it's not "the best of both worlds" (Step-up and step-down) but more like "a very acceptable combination of both worlds".

Step-down is fine, as long as your final (terminal) power-supply voltage is still higher than your V(out) needs to be -- otherwise, it just quits. You want to run the battery down to the last electron -- or you're wasting energy. If the step-down circuit quits before you've exhausted the battery, you're not getting the benefit of that electons. Also, the number of cells (if a multi-cell PS) enters into it... and may adversely effect the efficiency.

Fer example, the PAL... runs from a 9v battery. Burns a lot of electrons in heat, because of an in-efficient voltage regulator w/ who knows what drop-out voltage. Even if it were 20 mV drop-out, it's still inefficient, it just runs for a little longer. It will run from 9V (new battery) down to V(led)+V(drop-out). If it's a 1.8V drop-out, then you can run from 9V down to about 5.5V on the battery. Pretty low for a 9V. Now, figure the same thing w/ a stack of three 1.5V Alks... 4.5 V out, new. Get one of the really nice (but still in-efficient) low-drop-out voltage regulators - figure a 100 mV (.1V). The supply (batteries) will run from 4.5V down to 3.7V (for an LED flash... go figure). Well, you've gotten voltage (and current) regulation -- thus providing light and not torching that clear epoxy thingy, so you should be happy. 3.7V -- where the supply cct quits working, or, about 1.2V per Alk cell. Not efficient either in HOW the voltage is regulated, or in battery/ cell usage. Use 4 cells, and you get the per cell voltage down to .93V before the cctry quits working -- better, but still a LOT of juice left in those batts. You'd have to rig up a 5-6 cell stack to get the batteries to their exhaustion point (er, as considered by the battery companies) .6-.7V.

Maxim does have some step-up/step-down chips, but I don't recall if they do both at the same time, or if the chip can just be used in two diff't configurations.

I'd rather do the step-up, because I've seen ccts that will work down to .9 or .7 V input, so if you use two 1.5v cells, you really DO exhaust them... I'd be happier if there was a more efficient ONE cell solution, but the efficiency changes w/ load current (higher I(out) might mean much better efficiency) and source voltage (even if it works down to .7 V, it might run much more efficiently at 3V in than 1V).

But, that's part of what makes this so much fun to think about.
 
Marcus, that's the conclusion I've arrived at, too.

Single cell input to get 3.1 volts/ 350mA out, but nothing will do it with any good efficiency. Most just won't even do it.
frown.gif


So, a revision to the design will call for 3v in.

Also, the "customer" in this case has added a design request... AA's, not 123's. Cheaper (work provides) and they have twice the capacity of the 123's.

Surefire makes an extension tube for the 6P that allows it to use a NiCd pack. This same extension should give me enough room for 2 AA's and a LM2621 step-up.

It's approx. 86% efficient at 2.5v in and 350 mA output at 3.3 volts. That's good enough for me. Just have to have a battery bushing tube to make the AA fit.
smile.gif
 
Looks like it would work perfectly in a 3P, also, without any modifications. I'd be interested in one for sure.
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
i hope theres a way to do it with both batts bec a drop in replacement would be best.
and cheapest.that way all off us that allready have surefires dont need to buy extra parts or switch out dummy batts etc...

good luck my friends!
tongue.gif
 
Gadget, please keep us informed about the LM3477. I was really excited about it the first time I saw the specs, but I was mislead into thinking that it was 260x240 mm, not 2600x2400 mils. However, if the board can be trimmed, I would certainly love to hear about it.
 
MS,

Will do. I'm hoping it's very trimmable. I'd hate to think that an SMD design would be so big. I got the LM2621 step-up board down to .64 x .61 inches. Tiny!
wink.gif
There's a pic posted in the other topic.
 
That's a pretty in-depth site. And I think it applies pefectly.
wink.gif
His reasons are the same as ours for using circuitry, batteries are not constant voltage suppliers.

And he says that his circuits are not compatible with LEDs, but I don't see why. Slap a cap across the output and you'd be in business.
wink.gif
 
The author probably is not aware that LEDs can be driven by PWMs (with some loss in efficiasy though). I know that Nichias can, but not sure about the LS, although I don't see any reasons for not being able to.

BTW the guy is SureFire employee (see the mailing address at the bottom)
 
Huh! I hadn't noticed the address.
wink.gif


Maybe PK will consider using that technology on a Surefire in the future. Be very cool, incandescent or LED.
wink.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go, Go Gadget Flashlight:
And he says that his circuits are not compatible with LEDs, but I don't see why. Slap a cap across the output and you'd be in business. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it will not work. The circuit is completly aimed at incandescents. It delivers constant power to the filament. Actually the filament does not care in which form the energy is delivered (ok, if the current gets too high mechanical stress will damage the filament).
The circuit adjusts the duty cycle in a square root ratio, according to the input voltage. That means that twice the input voltage will give one forth of duty cycle (always within specs).

If you put a capacitor at the output you will have slightly less than the input voltage as output. If the capacitor is small, you will have a so called saw tooth voltage. But you have no predictable regulation.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mad_scientist:
The author probably is not aware that LEDs can be driven by <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Willie is very well aware what LEDs can do and what not. He is one of the most knowledgeable persons regarding flashlights I know.
Use his circuit for incandescent or let it go. Do not misuse things and complain afterwards. Unlike 10 years ago, there are plenty of (easy) circuits available for step down regulators.
There is also a light readily available with his circuit.
 
Without a doubt, the dc to dc converters are the most efficient solution.

But I'm still interested in the original you made, Gadget. Did you do any testing to see how long a set of batteries lasted? If so, how about the milliamps consumed as the batteries faded?

If you look at Craig's test data, the light output of the arc LS was pretty steady for 2 hours then plummeted on a single 123.

With a single lithium 123, brand new, my white LS drew 300 ma but dropped continually over the next hour. The drop became slower over the next hour but still had lots of usable light, at 60 ma. It appears brighter than a Nichia at 60 ma. Because of this, I'm thinking about cannibalizing a Surefire E1 to put an LS in.

Unless Gadget is still taking orders for the 6P replacement... I'd rather buy his than modify the E1 since it would require destroying the reflector and not being able to use the incandescent...

Gadget, you have at least one interested party here!
 
Been away from the forum for a while, I'll try to catch up quick.
wink.gif


The runtime tests I have done are with 2 AA batts, and they aren't too bad. NiMhs were even better than alkalines (high current demand). Both run just about an hour at constant brightness (350 - 400 mA).

Have yet to try a single lithium with the LM2621. The LM3477 suggested earlier won't fit, so 6v supply is out unless I revert to simple resistor setup.
 
Sorry Doug,
I forgot to mention the LM2621 in that part.
2 NiMhs with the step-up, driving the LS. Works well.
wink.gif


Still have to do a runtime test with a single Lithium 3v into the step-up...
 
Back
Top