Surefire gets me sometimes....

LEDBE
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mick53

Newly Enlightened
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Sep 8, 2005
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Hi,

I've been thinking this for a loooooong time. Now I just gotta say it.

Surefire makes a pretty good product but their profit margin is way out of line in my opinion.

I know what some of you are thinking, "It's not your business, it's their business and they can do what they want with pricing." True enough.

But Surefire will never see any of my money and I can afford them too. I just don't want to feel stupid for buying what I can get elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.

Here's a good example of what I mean:

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2277

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultrafire-Remot...yZ106988QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Don't start on "build quality" now please. These are very simple devices to manufacture. I dont' see how Surefire can justify a cost of $64.99 for this. Do you? Seriously. They are charging 32x more than Ultrafire for the same device. Shoot, it might even be made in the same building in China.

You don't think ALL Surefire products are made in California, do you? Maybe some are ASSEMBLED there. What about parts? You don't think Surefire manufactures all its own parts, do you?

I've been checking around for a small Cree to rifle mount with a remote pressure switch. I can do it with an Ultrafire C2 with a remote switch and a mount for around $30. Or I could spend a ton of money with Surefire and end up with fewer lumens.

Surefire my butt. Ultrafire forever. Read a comparison of the comparable Surefire to the Ultrafire C2. Is their light worth the money difference? Is it worth 3x- 6x the Ultrafire. Not really.

Ok all you Surefire guys, get defensive and blast me. I don't blame your for you being angry. I'd be angry too if I let Surefire rip me off like that!

Bah, Surefire.

Mike
 
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Well, I think you hit the nail on the head: just don't patronize them and that's that. I own SF and non-SF lights. I really like my SF's just as I like my Fluke DMM ($150 vs. $40ish for a similar Craftsman, etc.), my 28v Li-Ion Milwaukee cordless set ($700 vs. $180 for Craftsman) and the list could easily go on. The difference between quality tools and imitation is night and day, especially when you really depend on them. These tools may seem overpriced to you. The cheap stuff would serve Joe Homeowner just fine. But I'm a tradesman, and quality counts. I really like my Fenix lights, but I honestly feel my SF's are justified in their extra cost.
 
It's a personal thing, as with all things…


No need to answer any of the following questions.

Do you own a bike?

Do you own a car?

Where do you live?

What do you like to eat?

What type of computer are you using? w/dial up or high speed internet?


The answer to any of the questions can always be downgraded to a lower quality, price or what have you.


Have a decent bike? Why? Go to a thrift store and buy one for $5.00 – $10.00.

What a good meal? Why? Almost all fast foods now have a dollar menu.

Live in a nice area? Why? There are lower priced ones out there?

We all have our niches on items of value to us.


Just something to think about.


Njoy…
 
Good example Mick

SF machining is good. and they use nice thickwall tubing and the ano. seems alright.

But I also wonder where the rest of what makes up their products comes from (other than the emitters) . It doesnt seem they have the best regulation of output . Their clickie switches are reknown for being crappy. And things like the selector rings on the U2 and Kroma have been described as somewhat cheap/chinsy and kinda crappy.

If you buy 2 of the same light the output on both can be extremely different (though they extoll a flawless perfect beam everytime on every light they make).

Some get hot while running, others dont (same model )

And on lights like the L1 the diffusion "film on the window varies from one to the next. I know it must be some magical proprietary process but cant they even maintain consistancy on that?

So what is the reason for the high cost ? Other than the Made in America factor, which doesnt seem to translate into anything in the real world anymore.

We know the Gov't will pay $300 for a hammer/toilet seat but does that carry over to the private consumer market for long? How many times will the average joe fork out $150 bucks for an L4 only to have it fail (Z57 switch) and though he may get a replacemnt lickity split will he so readily throw the mony at SF if he ever loses it or whatever and needs a new light?
 
I think what he is trying to say Garawol is

Why spend the money for it if the quality is not there or is no different than the less expensive one.

We might spend more money on a good meal because it is supposed to be just that , better than a $1.00 double chees burger at McD's. If MCD's charged the same for the Dbl CHZ burger as the great restaurant with great food/service they might have a problem unloading them . When you go to the nice restauraunt and you are treated like you are in MCD's and the food is no better , naturally you leave upset and disappointed.
we all talk ourselves down from more expensive things to cheaper ones and sometimes this works out well.
I think he is just trying to weigh the differences and possibly find out exactly what makes SF worth the extra.
Kinda like , what exactly makes LEVIS jeans pre-worn and torn and faded and dingy looking worth $50-60 bucks?
It is right on the money though, If you dont feel soomething is worth it then stop spending money on it.
 
When I was in sales a manager once told me that as soon as a products perceived value exceeds the price that you're asking for it that the customer will buy. Apparently, in your eyes, SF's value hasn't exceeded the $$$. Don't buy. I'm not blaming you. However, you'll find that many people do find that the value exceeds the asking price and so they buy the lights. I'm in the latter.
 
mick53 said:
Hi,

I've been thinking this for a loooooong time. Now I just gotta say it.

Surefire makes a pretty good product but their profit margin is way out of line in my opinion.

I know what some of you are thinking, "It's not your business, it's their business and they can do what they want with pricing." True enough.

But Surefire will never see any of my money and I can afford them too. I just don't want to feel stupid for buying what I can get elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.

Here's a good example of what I mean:

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2277

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultrafire-Remot...yZ106988QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Don't start on "build quality" now please. These are very simple devices to manufacture. I dont' see how Surefire can justify a cost of $64.99 for this. Do you? Seriously. They are charging 32x more than Ultrafire for the same device. Shoot, it might even be made in the same building in China.

IF YOU CAN MANUFACTURE THEM IN LARGE QUANTITIES WITH A RETAIL PRICE UNDER $65, I'LL BUY SOME FROM YOU. YOUR QUALITY NEEDS TO BE JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER.

You don't think ALL Surefire products are made in California, do you? Maybe some are ASSEMBLED there. What about parts? You don't think Surefire manufactures all its own parts, do you?

YES, THEY FARM OUT SOME ITEMS. DO YOU HAVE INSIDE SCOOP ON WHERE PARTS ARE MADE? ARE YOU SAYING SOME ASSEMBLIES ARE MADE OVERSEAS? HAVE YOU WORKED AT SUREFIRE?

I've been checking around for a small Cree to rifle mount with a remote pressure switch. I can do it with an Ultrafire C2 with a remote switch and a mount for around $30. Or I could spend a ton of money with Surefire and end up with fewer lumens.

HOW DURABLE IS THE ULTRAFIRE?

Surefire my butt. Ultrafire forever. Read a comparison of the comparable Surefire to the Ultrafire C2. Is their light worth the money difference? Is it worth 3x- 6x the Ultrafire. Not really.

Ok all you Surefire guys, get defensive and blast me. I don't blame your for you being angry. I'd be angry too if I let Surefire rip me off like that!

Bah, Surefire.

Mike
Click to expand...

......
 
I need my light to have a reliable momentary switch, I need it to have a hefty body, I need it to have a durable pocket clip, I need it to have a step-down body for use with a Rogers/SureFire syringe technique grip, and I like the way it looks :twothumbs
 
Crislight01,

I guess all those people selling their Surefires in the "For Sale" forum agree with your barfing emoticon.

Always seem to be more Surefires than any other brand for sale there.

I wonder why that is?

Mike
 
Don't start on "build quality" now please. These are very simple devices to manufacture. I dont' see how Surefire can justify a cost of $64.99 for this. Do you? Seriously. They are charging 32x more than Ultrafire for the same device. Shoot, it might even be made in the same building in China.

You don't think ALL Surefire products are made in California, do you? Maybe some are ASSEMBLED there. What about parts? You don't think Surefire manufactures all its own parts, do you?
Click to expand...

do you have anything to back that up or just speculating based on two pictures from the Internet?
 
To each his own.

I trusted Surefire enough that it was mounted on my M16A4 when I deployed. That took a lot right there.

I'll admit though that my daily carry lights have been a cheap, but big Coast LED that uses three triple A batteries for like 62 lumens, and Streamlight Strion. Surefire just doesn't have a small rechargeable light. I do have my E3E when I want to carry a small light of decent output though. I don't use it a lot as the price of batteries gets to me.
 
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mossyoak said:
because theres more surefire lights in circulation than any other brand.
Click to expand...


No mater what your opinion of Surefire I'm sure the statement couldn't possible true. Except in the hands pf a Flashaholic it would very very unusual to see a Surfire in Australia. Even if you limit your statement to the U.S.A. it would be very doubtful that the statement would be true.
Norm
 
And what I notice about the surefire products, is that they hold their resale value better than just about anything you'd want to buy....You'll barely lose any money should you decide to sell it....thats very nice in my eyes!!!
I work on cars, motorcycles ,and all sorts of sh*t, I've used tools of lesser quality and price and have been disappointed in the return. Sure, craftsman has a lifetime warranty(same as MOST major tool brands) But I would be going to and from the store replacing tools I broke more that if I use my Snap-On ,or Mac, & Matco tools. I will pay extra for the piece of mind to know I can get the job done with the tool at hand and COUNT on it to perform at its best EVERY single time I want to use it! AND it has a lifetime warranty!

I love my surefires and you can't have them!

You should be on the "do not sell" list for not even giving it a chance!

It all boils down to what you feel is justified as "Worth The Money"
I'll spend $1300.00 for my home theater speakers while other can barely justify the $500.00 Sh*tty "Bose home theater in a box"

We all precieve the Real Value of products differently, and there really is no Level Playing Field.

By the way I LOVE the $20.00 filet minon at the local steak house while you'll take the $1.00 menu at McD's.......It's all personal preferance and the pecieved value in "Your Eyes" that counts!

I'd never say a Porshe 911 Turbo isn't worth the money if I didn't spend a week with it! Try one out for a week and I bet you'll change you're mind.....if not sell it, get your money back, and choke it up to experiance.
 
I agree that Surefire may not be for everyone, but they do make good lights. I have become a big Fenix fan in the last few years, but I still believe in having Surefire lights too. Remember that you are paying for:

1. R&D

2. A warranty for the life of your light.

Many of the clones and similar lights are much cheaper, but surefire was the one that developed many of the concepts first. R&D is not cheap for anything these days.
Having a lifetime warranty on your light is also a good piece of mind. Sure, there have been issues with warranty service such as time, but nothing is perfect. I'm not ragging on Ultrafire or any other of these types of lights, but I think we shouldn't rag on Surefire either.
Customers vote with the pocketbook. If you do not like a particular light, then don't buy it. Many of us here will still buy Surefire because we like them. People usually will pay more for things they really like. Good luck in whatever lights you choose.
 
Yes, I am a bit of a Surefire fanboy. But I agree that they are overpriced. However, they offer something that people are willing to pay a lot of money for. CPF shows time and time again that there are people out there completely willing to spend thousands of dollars on flashlights. And since you can't get a Surefire without paying the prices, you either pay or you don't get to own one. So, while it is ridiculous to price lights as such, they can because people have shown a willingness to pay.
 
SureFires are made in the USA. I know this for a fact.
SureFire machines its own parts and components in the USA at its own factory.
SureFire assembles its own products in the USA at its own factory.
SureFire employs roughly 450 USA citizens.

Stuff that SureFire has to buy in / outsource - they do using companies in the USA (except in special circumstances, for example: SSC LEDs which are finished in Korea)

SureFire are dedicated to 'made in the USA' in the strongest sense possible.
 
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