Surefire L4 used as searchlight

[NoFair]

Can't really see any reason from the OP to complain. He is getting a replacement, don't see any reason why Surefire should send him anything else than a L4 like the one he sent in.

AFAIK Pelican replaces damaged lights with updated ones when the former model is no longer in stock or when the parts are phased out.
They do give you a complete light for the price of a lamp assembly when they stop stocking lamp assemblies for your lights though..

 

[JNewell]

On the contrary, if I sent in an old L4 and got the new version I'd be disappointed. The new one may or may not be brighter in total output, but assuming it's got the same KX2c head that is being used on the Scout Light (which is where the KL4 came from), it is not a substitute at all for the old KL4.

 

[Illum]

At SHOT 2009 I played with the new L4 and it is not "the wall of light" that the older L4 is. I am not saying the new one is not a nice light but if you are looking for that room sweeping wall of light stay with the older L4. :green:

:shakehead:aaa:

Thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger on a new L4, heck, I love L4s because of that...and for a metal light its never has an issue in the cold outdoors:thumbsup:

 

[foxtrot29]

This is ridiculous.

"I'm pissed that they said they would replace the part with a new one, but won't give me an upgrade, which isn't part of their warranty service anyway"

??

This is what I'm hearing anyway.... Did I hear wrong?

 

[Illum]

no you didn't hear wrong and I'm surprised that a highly efficient forum like this have to take 25 posts to get that point through :shrug:

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

what would you think if somebody on tour of duty in Afghanistan
replaced the searchlicht !!
of a .50cal BMG Hummer mounted machinegun.....and keeps using it
until the end of his deployment....
best of all.....he can not even tell the difference to the previous
machingun searchlight. ( usually Surefire Hellfire with 3500 Lumens )

would you believe it ?

i am pretty mad and dissapointed at Surefire right now, because they told me today they will replace the broken LED of my L4....not with the new 120 Lm Led...but with the old version...that throws out an amazing !!

( honestly estimated : 65 - 75 Lmns )

i was asking them if they kindly would upgrade, even if i would pay difference - they said simply:

NO.

not very happy about that.

What exactly makes you believe that the new KL4 module will be so much brighter than the classic L4?

 

[KRUPPSTAHL]

I broke an old Pelican light by storing it with alkalines (they vented hydrogen and, the light being dive-rated, the pressure built up and cracked the light) and Pelican sent me the updated version.

=================================================

sorry i have shared my experience and my point of view.
with many other high quality products / companies that did not work well
i made EXCELLENT experience....
ok, SF is fixing my light, hey...i paid for this warranty.
being caring for a little client like me, i would have expected to hear:
sure, its gonna cost you 20 bucks, and we do that for you.
Pelican can do it. SF wont. and thats what i am dissapointed about.
i know this makes many of you SF freaks mad, but oh well.

you would not believe how BENCHMADE, Knights Armament,
and Microtech went way !! beyond repairing, upgrading or even
if not absolutely necessary replacing a product.

no kidding, very honestly, i am 100% sure i have been sold one of these
early 65 lumens L4's

ok, no offense to nobody. i just wanted to share my exp. and point of view
about SF.

 

[Illum]

well, if your not happy about the output you have many other options to choose from, no one is forcing you to buy only surefires. Instead of smearing surefire's reputation you could remedy yourself by looking over other threads from different companies and see which light is best for you. :thumbsup:

 

[jumpstat]

I regret selling my L4.....
I miss my L4.....

 

[seale_navy]

I broke an old Pelican light by storing it with alkalines (they vented hydrogen and, the light being dive-rated, the pressure built up and cracked the light) and Pelican sent me the updated version.

=================================================

sorry i have shared my experience and my point of view.
with many other high quality products / companies that did not work well
i made EXCELLENT experience....
ok, SF is fixing my light, hey...i paid for this warranty.
being caring for a little client like me, i would have expected to hear:
sure, its gonna cost you 20 bucks, and we do that for you.
Pelican can do it. SF wont. and thats what i am dissapointed about.
i know this makes many of you SF freaks mad, but oh well.

you would not believe how BENCHMADE, Knights Armament,
and Microtech went way !! beyond repairing, upgrading or even
if not absolutely necessary replacing a product.

no kidding, very honestly, i am 100% sure i have been sold one of these
early 65 lumens L4's

ok, no offense to nobody. i just wanted to share my exp. and point of view
about SF.

i know how u feel. its like u buy inova and pelican which are both good but at the end, u expect the same thing from companies like surefire.

though they have a right not to grant an upgrade, the fact is, its rather dissappointing, looking at other companies which sells cheaper light and offer upgrades and having paid a surefire price, they ought to do the same as well.

but seriously, i doubt they will give u the 65 lumens head back. at least the 100 lumens one.

people may find this disturbing, but in my view if we break this issue down, by providing the same KL4 head to you, surefire extent of customer service is just what people would find in a lifetime gurantee in a product.

but however, giving free upgrades, or paying for upgrades, that would be a notch up from the normal foreseeable customer service out of a lifetime gurantee product.

 

[ja10]

So you bought the old L4 ... used the old L4 ... liked the old L4 ... and it broke and SF is giving you a brand new L4 head just like the one you had ... and you're so mad you won't buy another SF flashlight?

They still have lots of L4 heads left over. It seems perfectly reasonable to use that stock to fix older lights that broke.

 

[Illum]

replacing a defective/malfunctioning component is considered as a repair under Surefires warranty

Replacing a defective/malfunctioning component using a new product that may or may not cost more than the replacement of the existing component is call an upgrade and it COULD NOT POSSIBLY be under any warranty, even Surefire, unless it is the company's best interest to hit bankruptcy from profit loss in upgrading customers lights for free. Heck! if that was covered theres not going to be an incentive for create newer versions:candle:

 

[Howecollc]

I'm not going into the whole story but the L4 was always 100 lumens no matter what the package said (65 Lumens). There was a mistake in the beginning with the test methods and Surefire mislabeled them 65 lumens.

I am glad to have finally found verification of a narrower beam pattern in the new L4. However, I must take issue with your statement above. I own two L4s, one purchased new in December 2004, the other purchased new in December 2006. The 2004 model, which was indeed labeled as 65 lumens on the package, has always been far less bright than the 2006 model.

I have always said that I would welcome a failure of the head in order to get a 100 lumen replacement from Surefire repair, never imagining that they would have any old 65 lumen heads lying around. I doubt they do.

Now I would be in just the opposite situation as that of KRUPPSTAHL; worrying that I was going to be sent one of the new KL4 "throwers", instead of the "wall of light" I chose the light for in the first place. I already have an E2DL, thank you.

 

[1996alnl]

Now I would be in just the opposite situation as that of KRUPPSTAHL; worrying that I was going to be sent one of the new KL4 "throwers", instead of the "wall of light" I chose the light for in the first place. I already have an E2DL, thank you.

To my understanding the new L4 has the same floody beam as before,it's just brighter with a more pronounced hotspot.
You can't even talk about the E2DL and L4 in the same sentence,the E2DL is in a class of it's own.
I personaly think Surefire tried to please the masses with this new upgraded L4.

 

[Grox]

I am glad to have finally found verification of a narrower beam pattern in the new L4. However, I must take issue with your statement above. I own two L4s, one purchased new in December 2004, the other purchased new in December 2006. The 2004 model, which was indeed labeled as 65 lumens on the package, has always been far less bright than the 2006 model.

Having had 5 KL4 heads, I can say that the packaging doesn't really matter - SF may have changed their rating but there were/are good and bad units of all ratings.

 

[asdalton]

Yes, there was a general improvement of available Lux V bins over time, but Surefire never released different versions of the Luxeon-based L4.

 

[Howecollc]

Yes, there was a general improvement of available Lux V bins over time, but Surefire never released different versions of the Luxeon-based L4.

asdalton,

I have always considered the possibility that some of the difference in brightness between my two L4s might be attributable to the fact that the older model had about 150 hours of use on it by the time I got the newer one. As time has progressed, the newer model has remained much brighter than the older; but for all I know, they may both be fading imperceptibly from their original output.

What do you think; will the Lux V dim significantly over 200 to 300 hours of use?

 

[Size15's]

asdalton,

I have always considered the possibility that some of the difference in brightness between my two L4s might be attributable to the fact that the older model had about 150 hours of use on it by the time I got the newer one. As time has progressed, the newer model has remained much brighter than the older; but for all I know, they may both be fading imperceptibly from their original output.

SureFire didn't change the KL4. The output was NEVER 65 lumens. This was a guess based on a quick test in what they new to be an IS calibrated for incandescent flashlights. They had to get a rating for the catalogs and they could only be certain that the KL4 like other LED models at that time was at least 65 lumens but they didn't have the data to support a higher, more accurate rating.
It took them a while to get around to testing production examples in the numbers they needed to be confident in increasing the rating to a more accurate value.

Of course over time the LuxeonV LEDs in this case SureFire sourced improved so later production runs featured higher output LEDs.
SureFire is known for being conservative and so the rating is a guideline often bested in reality.

What do you think; will the Lux V dim significantly over 200 to 300 hours of use?

LuxeonV LEDs in the KL4 and L2 bezels do run hot and heat shortens the lifespan of LEDs and degrades the performance. I am confident that 200 to 300 hours runtime is sufficient to see a drop in output. I know that SureFire explores this, especially for it's own products.

I also know that most/many flashlight and drop-in manufacturers do not take the performance of the LED in use over time into account when determining the output rating. From what I've seen it's shocking how quickly the output performance degrades for some manufacturers. This is also an area seldom explored by CPF members. Likely because it is extremely time consuming and the ability to 'accurately' measure the lumen output of a flashlight is not something very many CPF members are able to do to start with.

Al

 

[Kestrel]

The newest L4 is a different light running a Seoul P4 LED with a different circuit.

They still have lots of L4 heads left over. It seems perfectly reasonable to use that stock to fix older lights that broke.

I think that this gets to the heart of the matter. The different emitter is necessarily associated with different circuitry, and SF has a stock of older L4 heads. They are not going to want to open up an older warranty-return L4 and replace the circuitry as well as the emitter, and they are probably shipping out all of their new production L4's anyway. It's not like they would want to keep an additional supply of new heads from the new production run for those wanting to upgrade their older lights during warranty returns. It could be more of a question of labor and inventory considerations on their part. My two lumens.

 

[1996alnl]

That makes sense Kestrel.