Tactical Medic Light

[Mdinana]

Not sure if this should be here or under LED, but here goes...

What's the better light for a combat medic? I've seen my guys using green, blue and red. Obviously red is supposedly better for night vision preservation (and supposedly harder to acquire for the enemy), green is better under night vision goggles (which most of these guys don't have) , and blue makes the blood stand out better.

I've currently got this on my helmet, which is the blue LEDs:
http://www.surefire.com/Helmet-Light

Thinking of making the switch to this, the red LEDs:
http://www.surefire.com/HelmetLight-C

If you'll notice, the specs are the same for both, I can tell you that the highest level is surpisingly bright. The adjustability is really nice. Never had to use the IRR bulb (um, I'm pretty sure it's off).

So what says the crowd? Stay with blue, or go to red?

 

[Erzengel]

Or try the Streamlight Sidewinder (compact) with red, blue, infrared and up to 45 lumen white.

 

[Mdinana]

Or try the Streamlight Sidewinder (compact) with red, blue, infrared and up to 45 lumen white.

Good point. Not exactly the light I want right now. However, I know a couple buddies of mine that were issued it with their USMC gear.

 

[TMedina]

I vote blue - the medic' priority is the casualty; detecting blood is a critical element of that priority.

That said, you could run both if had a tactical need in the field - put the SF Red helmet light on a vest clip.

-Trevor

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...I've seen my guys using green, blue and red. Obviously red is supposedly better for night vision preservation (and supposedly harder to acquire for the enemy)...

Emphasis mine.

Red does not fare well on the modern battlefield. The IR signature of most 'red' lights becomes a virtual beacon for not only those equipped with NV gear but also anything in the battlespace with IR sensors -- drones, fighter jets, choppers, tanks...etc.

 

[TMedina]

I thought red LEDs didn't give off IR? Which is why the old incan IR Filters didn't work on LEDs?

-Trevor

 

[archimedes]

Don't know much about this light, but recently stumbled across the First Light USA website, and thought the Tomahawk Medical light looked really interesting....

 

[Mdinana]

Emphasis mine.

Red does not fare well on the modern battlefield. The IR signature of most 'red' lights becomes a virtual beacon for not only those equipped with NV gear but also anything in the battlespace with IR sensors -- drones, fighter jets, choppers, tanks...etc.

Fair enough ... but our current military conflict puts us against an enemy with NONE of the above (save for NV gear, intermittently).

So a valid point, but mainly a moot point in the Mid East. That being said, would that change your opinion?

 

[Erzengel]

You also have to consider that Your light annoys Your comrades if they use NV equipment. The blue light on the Streamlight Sidewinder is labelled as "IR safe" because it is the only LED on this light, which emits absolutely no light in the IR spectrum.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Fair enough ... but our current military conflict puts us against an enemy with NONE of the above (save for NV gear, intermittently).

So a valid point, but mainly a moot point in the Mid East. That being said, would that change your opinion?

Probably not. From a practical point of view even orange / red (~630nm) is so hard to see with that I would not seriously consider it. Reds deep enough to have no direct negative impact on the rods (~640-660nm) are much harder to see with than even orange / red.

I'll admit that 630nm is really good for digging out wood slivers. Since most medical people are probably used to looking at body parts in the light from warm incans there is something to be said for using what you have been trained with -- but that's still a long way from orange / red or deep red. IIRC there are some common battlefield eye injuries that are diagnosed with blue light.

As far as not running into NV gear in current theaters goes, I wouldn't bet my life on it. We already know that (months ago) it came out that the enemy was intercepting feeds from sophisticated sensors on drones for their own purposes. They are using OUR NV gear! I wouldn't be surprised to see NV gear anywhere on earth -- wherever someone may scrape together $100 -- it's the 21st century. Then there are 'friendly fire' issues with your own side using NV gear.

Phantom Warrior has a number of lights which they sell only to military users. They have a model for medics. All colors of their lights have had the IR filtered out of the beam coming from the LEDs.

"The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have sav'd my life." Falstaff

 

[Mdinana]

Probably not. From a practical point of view even orange / red (~630nm) is so hard to see with that I would not seriously consider it. Reds deep enough to have no direct negative impact on the rods (~640-660nm) are much harder to see with than even orange / red.

I'll admit that 630nm is really good for digging out wood slivers. Since most medical people are probably used to looking at body parts in the light from warm incans there is something to be said for using what you have been trained with -- but that's still a long way from orange / red or deep red. IIRC there are some common battlefield eye injuries that are diagnosed with blue light.

As far as not running into NV gear in current theaters goes, I wouldn't bet my life on it. We already know that (months ago) it came out that the enemy was intercepting feeds from sophisticated sensors on drones for their own purposes. They are using OUR NV gear! I wouldn't be surprised to see NV gear anywhere on earth -- wherever someone may scrape together $100 -- it's the 21st century. Then there are 'friendly fire' issues with your own side using NV gear.

Phantom Warrior has a number of lights which they sell only to military users. They have a model for medics. All colors of their lights have had the IR filtered out of the beam coming from the LEDs.

"The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have sav'd my life." Falstaff

Agreed about the NVG. It's out there, but in relatively small quantities (relative to the US).

OK, so maybe a dumb question, but what's the deal w/ filtering out IR? I mean, any light source will amplify in NVG, right? The only reason I know of to use IR is that you need NVG to see it - ie, it should be safer when fighting an enemy with limited NVG resources.

And yes, blue lights are used for corneal abrasions and such. You don't need it, but it makes life a lot easier.

 

[Mdinana]

Don't know much about this light, but recently stumbled across the First Light USA website, and thought the Tomahawk Medical light looked really interesting....

Interesting, but I think my wallet just ran away. Yikes!

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...OK, so maybe a dumb question, but what's the deal w/ filtering out IR? I mean, any light source will amplify in NVG, right? The only reason I know of to use IR is that you need NVG to see it - ie, it should be safer when fighting an enemy with limited NVG resources...

It would seem to me that some are interested in filtering out the IR from their lights because they are, perhaps, less confident that they will not encounter any adversaries equipped with NV gear.

JEMelby, military pilot and CPFer, has two interesting posts in the thread linked below. They are anecdotal in nature, but interesting:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/index.php?posts/2907625/

 

[JNieporte]

Whatever you get for your primary (and even back-up) light, I'd like to recommend something for your bags / kits...
Every First Aid Kit, glove pocket, or gauze storage area should contain a small AAA-cell LED. The one I use is a Gerber Tempo (twisty, 8 lumen 5mm LED) with blue nail polish on the LED itself to help with medical tasks. Wal-mart also sells a Rayovac clicky penlight for about $3 and it uses one AAA and has a pocket clip. Paint the LED and it serves the same purpose, but is longer and cheaper.

 

[angelofwar]

Stick with the SF helmet light (smaller profile, harder to catch on items), and get a Kroma/Kroma Mil-spec to go with it for handheld. The Kroma has been discontinued, and can be found at a relatively decent price now. While not a "medic", I do wear the blue helmet light when in the AOR, since, as the USAF put's it, we're all medics, and where I work, some-one can be dead by the time the real medics show-up. Patch them up and stopping the bleeding...hands free. Yeah, stick with the SF Helmet light.

The blue light helps blood to stand out on dark clothing, etc.

 

[Mdinana]

Oh I've got lights ... ugh, maybe a few too many!
zebralight H51 and H51R. 2 surefirel E2L's. a Novatac storm. A PrincetonTec headlamp. a couple of the small red LED fauxtons on the aid bag zippers. My SF blue helmet light.

I think that's all. Don't tell my wife :)

JNieporte, interesting idea about painting the LED with nail polish. You ever have to touch it up?

 

[Napalm]

Oh I've got lights ... ugh, maybe a few too many!
zebralight H51 and H51R. 2 surefirel E2L's. a Novatac storm. A PrincetonTec headlamp. a couple of the small red LED fauxtons on the aid bag zippers. My SF blue helmet light.

I think that's all. Don't tell my wife :)

You forgot the 5D Maglite for the occasional colonoscopy. ;)

Nap.

 

[menoceros]

I know you're asking about what color to use, but Streamlight makes a light just for paramedics. It's a three level light that runs on AAs it's under $40. The low level would probasbly let you do what you need without interfering with your buddies. It's the Pro-Tac EMS.

 

[jh333233]

LED involves a physics term: bandgap
the spectrum it gives out depends on this thing
For colored LED(like 5mm)
It have only 1 bandgap which gives only 1 type of wavelength of light,aka monochromic
Red =/= infrared
So that NVG(theres many type of NVG, light intensifying/passive infrared/active infrared etc.)
Might not be able to see red light, depends on which type he/she uses
If i was wrong, please point it out

 

[MikeAusC]

What's the better light for a combat medic? I've seen my guys using green, blue and red. Obviously red is supposedly better for night vision preservation (and supposedly harder to acquire for the enemy)

Red light light ONLY helps preserve night vision if it's a VERY low level - scotopic vision is still sensitive to red light.

, green is better under night vision goggles (which most of these guys don't have)

ONLY if it uses LEDs which have low output in the sensitivity range of the NVGs YOU are using.

blue makes the blood stand out better.

Blue makes blood appear black, but I suppose it gives some contrast.