The ULTIMATE 18650's-- now who can become a distributor?

[ntalbot]

This company is on the cutting edge of battery technology. Check out their best 18650:
http://www.quallion.com/sub-sp-18650f.asp
Click on the pdf data sheet to see the discharge curves.
http://www.quallion.com/images-pdf/18650 F.pdf
BTW If you have trouble with their web site, try ie. I had some trouble with Firefox.

Here are some excerpts from this info page:
http://www.quallion.com/sub-t-performance.asp#zero
Quallion's patented Zero Volt™ technology allows long storage periods in a deep discharged state with no permanent capacity loss due to low voltage. The ability to discharge a battery to zero volts offers a number of important advantages in many medical, space, and military applications.

Quallion's SaFE-LYTE technology integrates into the battery a liquid halogen compound that is flame-retardant and immiscible in the electrolyte. This solution significantly lowers the risk of combustion, and allows Quallion to produce batteries that are far safer than conventional Li-ion options.

Here is some more interesting reading:
http://www.quallion.com/sub-tc-secondary.asp

So we are talking 2.5Ah (real capacity, not inflated), you can discharge to zero volts, and they are safe. Not to mention up to a 25 year life and 1000 to 1 million cycles (depending on application). These could be the last cells you ever need to buy!

Now we just need a big battery distributor (Battery Junction?) to contact Quallion and become a distributor for them and start selling us some of those awesome cells! I just hope they are at least vaguely affordable. Please do not contact Quallion unless you are already a large battery distributor. They usually only sell to medical, aerospace and military companies, and only in large quantities. I don't want them to get annoyed by inquiries from dozens of cpf'ers wanting to buy a couple of cells, or by an ambitious entrepreneur who thinks he can become a battery distributor overnight. The best shot we have is if one of the big, established battery distributors can cut a contract with Quallion for regular orders of large numbers of cells. The purpose of this thread is to attract the attention of big battery distributors (know any? direct them to this thread) and to give people a chance to express interest in these cells. Would you buy a couple of these cells, even if they were expensive? Think about it, you upgrade flashlights pretty often, but you would only need buy these cells once. Would you buy them if they were $50? $100?

Nick

 

[LukeA]

I li-poly that isn't a bomb when punctured is of interest to me (bottom of page) as well as the li-ion cells.

 

[shomie911]

Is it just me or are these battery advancements coming really quick all of a sudden?

These new cells look promising but I can't wait for cells with nano technology (not sure the exact title) for a huge increase in capacity.

One day runtime won't even be an issue with our lights!

 

[mdocod]

I'm looking over their website, trying to find the "catch." ... Can't find it.... yet....


<Pessimism ON>
[edit in] OK, the catch is that these are manufacture claims with no 3rd party tests to prove those claims...
It does sound like they have some new advancements, but a 2.5AH rated 18650 is nothing new all by itself, and that rating is at 0.2C discharge rate, which is to be expected but means that the realistic capacity under a load we might use it at would probably be closer to 2.2AH anyways... It appears they are offering the 18650 size cell in a LiMn and LiCo chemistry of sorts, but they have probably introduced some other elements into the mix to stabilize these 2 chemistries to improve cycle life and tolerance to various abuse (like discharges to 0V)... Looking at the website, I am having a hard time distinguishing if those cell advancements they are talking about apply to every cell they carry, or if it's only certain cells. I would think that if you had this "check-off" style list of "cool technology" you would include the list of those cool features that each cell has in the specifications for the cell. So far I have to either assume that they all have it, or some have it but I haven't figures out which ones yet..I wonder what the price tag on these is? ehhe..

 

[CM]

It looks like most of the stuff they produce are for high rel applications. I doubt we'll see these sold to the masses. They serve a niche market (medical, military, space etc.)

 

[Burgess]

But they could be sold to US,

if only we could find a Distributor to handle this.



I am Definitely interested ! ! !


:wow:
_

 

[qwertyydude]

If I recall someone did a long term storage test by charging a charged li-ion battery in consistent room temperature and it retained approximately 90% of it's charge after a year, much like these cells. So I think the test is slightly skewed because of these favorable conditions.

The deep discharge and safety issue has been dealt with by A123. A123 didn't take off because they ask for a $20,000 buy in just to get reseller's rights. And A123 has to it's advantage much higher discharge rates than the quallions.

I really don't see too much amazing improvement in technology. What I hope to see from quallion is a decent availability. If A123 really wanted to corner lithium technology they wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot by making it prohibitively expensive to sell their product.

 

[mdocod]

A123 with their Lithium Nano Phosphate has the advantage of safety, abuse tolerance, cycle life, and drain rate, but their energy density in the 18650 size cell is about 1/3rd that of LiCo cells. It's a tradeoff. Not really a massive advancement, but is very well suited for use in power tools and other high drain "cell abusers."

 

[ntalbot]

Here are the disharge curves for their best 18650.
http://www.quallion.com/images-pdf/18650 F.pdf
Looks like you still get 2.5Ah for 1C. Good enough for me. I don't think I need 2C; I just want an 18650 cell that can drive a P7 hard for a decent length of time. 2.5 amps should be more than enough. Quallion is building batteries for implantable defibrillators, satellites, mission critical stuff. I don't think their customers would take to kindly to exaggerated performance claims, so I believe their numbers.
Nick

 

[Wattnot]

If you can't find one of these:

a big battery distributor (Battery Junction?)

I'd be happy to volunteer to be one of these:

an ambitious entrepreneur who thinks he can become a battery distributor overnight.

Here's what I'm thinking at the moment: So few people (aside from us) know what an 18650 is . . . Heck, you'll have a hard time finding anyone who knows what a lithium anything is! That company probably already knows how to market to their big customers (the ones you mentioned like medical, etc.) so Battery Junction and similar stores will not reach many more people than a CPF'er could right here on this (and similar) sites with a banner ad or even just a thread in the marketplace!

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'm not seeing much that is all that exciting or radically new. AW's protected Lithium cobalt cells work just fine. The continuous discharge of 5A is nothing new. I'm not seeing prices, independent testing, safety, etc.

Clicking on each of their "F" "W" "Y" & "SA" pdf's tell you virtually nothing about the cells except different discharge graphs. I'm not going to spend hours looking at every web page to try and discern clues about which chemistry and features each model has...so the lack of details makes this sound like many other Lithium Ion cells that have been coming out.

Quallion's SaFE-LYTE technology integrates into the battery a liquid halogen compound that is flame-retardant and immiscible in the electrolyte. This solution significantly lowers the risk of combustion, and allows Quallion to produce batteries that are far safer than conventional Li-ion options.

That is not the same thing as being safe...as in A123 Systems Nano-Lithium Iron Phosphate, or Emoli/Sony/Sanyo Lithium Manganese level of safety.

The devil is in the details...which are lacking here....and there is no problem finding acceptable 18650 Lithium cells. A company that is making cells with some of these relatively minor enhancements (as used by our flashlights) very likely come at a premium price (vs. AW's).

 

[etc]

I'm not seeing much that is all that exciting or radically new. AW's protected Lithium cobalt cells work just fine. The continuous discharge of 5A is nothing new. I'm not seeing prices, independent testing, safety, etc.

Yeah, but these are higher rated at 2500 mAh vs 2200 mAh for AW's stuff.
I got some AW's 18500 cells and wanted to get 18650 also but then heard that 2500 mAh are coming out, everywhere apparently and this looks like a great incremental improvement.

Keep in mind, things improve incrementally...

 

[Juggernaut]

One day runtime won't even be an issue with our lights!

Silly that will never happen with me around:devil:. Can you say multiple 600 watt Bi-pin bulb flashlights, Like 8X all in a separate reflector:devil:! If we can power a 4800 watt light like this for over an hour all in one assembly….. Well things will be different won't they.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'm not seeing much that is all that exciting or radically new. AW's protected Lithium cobalt cells work just fine. The continuous discharge of 5A is nothing new. I'm not seeing prices, independent testing, safety, etc.

Yeah, but these are higher rated at 2500 mAh vs 2200 mAh for AW's stuff.
I got some AW's 18500 cells and wanted to get 18650 also but then heard that 2500 mAh are coming out, everywhere apparently and this looks like a great incremental improvement.

Keep in mind, things improve incrementally...

If independent testing confirms their 2500mAh claim (with Voltage graphs at various loads), and other promoted features, that is a slight improvement.

It is still at best, pie-in-the-sky at the current time. What if they charge 3 times as much as AW's cells which also include a full protection circuit? Even if they are the same price as AW's, I would STRONGLY prefer his because of the protection. Their zero voltage causing no damage claim needs to be aggressively, repeatedly verified. My starting position is not believing all of their claims, until proven otherwise.

This company may have a quality line of products that have slightly more capacity, or other features...but the OP's emphatuation and overstated topic title deserves a critical viewpoint.

Again, too many details lacking, and there are MANY companies moving towards better quality/additional performance Lithium cells. Let's get some independent facts/tests on the table first.

 

[jirik_cz]

2500mAh is nothing special imho. I would rather like to buy some Panasonic 2900mAh :naughty: 18650 batteries with protection circuits. Any big battery dealer or an ambitious entrepreneur can get them?

 

[mdocod]

LuxLuthor and I are certainly in the same ballpark on this one.... Assume that everyone is guilty of false and exaggerated advertising until proven otherwise

No, I don't have a problem with this philosophy ttbtbtbtbthbthtbtbbbhbhthtbhtbtbhbhtbht

 

[etc]

2500mAh is nothing special imho. I would rather like to buy some Panasonic 2900mAh :naughty: 18650 batteries with protection circuits. Any big battery dealer or an ambitious entrepreneur can get them?

Re: Panasonic 2900 mAh.

That looks real interesting. Any idea why they are not mainstream, where do you buy these?

 

[jirik_cz]

Re: Panasonic 2900 mAh.

That looks real interesting. Any idea why they are not mainstream, where do you buy these?

I've asked AW some time ago if he can get them. This is the answer I've got. (I hope he doesn't mind publishing it)

Yes, those Panasonic are great cells. However, they only sell to corporate manufacturers in qty. of millions. Those loose cells floating around in the market ( ebay or online shops ) are grade B or C products rejected by pack manufacturers.

:mecry:

 

[divine]

I've asked AW some time ago if he can get them. This is the answer I've got. (I hope he doesn't mind publishing it)

:mecry:

Hmm... Group buy anyone?

 

[etc]

Sounds good... am interested.