TK10 reviews = SPAM?

cave dave

Flashlight Enthusiast
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Aug 15, 2001
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VA
I'm sorry folks for the trouble I caused. I promise this will not happen again.
(I know there are rules now in place to prevent this) I did not intend to be
a source of problems. Again, I'm sorry.

I also made a public apology here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2417745&postcount=149

:(

Good Job! I know David is true flashoholic who gets excited about new cool lights as much as the rest of us. I think this excitement just got a bit out of hand. Live and Learn!

PS Thanks for the link. I didn't know this topic was being discussed elsewhere. I was ignoring the TK10 threads. :oops:
 
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glenda17

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Feb 16, 2008
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279
If these had been posted all on one thread we would have never known that these people were paid $25 a piece for the reviews. We would have just seen a long thread of posts and thought that this was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Their repsonse was basically: we'll do a better job of hiding the payola scheme next time so it won't be so obvious.
 

gadget_lover

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Oct 7, 2003
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Near Silicon Valley (too near)
EDIT PER EMPATH's REQUEST: After 4 years of being on CPF, I still don't understand the definition of baiting. The RULES ( http://www.candlepowerforums.com/Rules.html#flaming ) still lack a definition of the term. Oh Well. All mention of baiting is hereby removed.
END OF EDIT

Glenda17, Haven't you read any of the posts by people who were solicited for reviews?

Let's see if I can put it in perspective...

When I bought my Prius, the car was easily worth the price of a BMW. Well, it was to those of us that were willing to accept the odd styling. They sold it for a bit less than a Camry. Why? Were were being bribed? Bought? Was the car that bad?

None of the above. The car was a radical departure from the norm. People buying it were breaking ground, and buying what was widely considered untested, unproven and unconventional technology. We were, in fact, taking a risk.

So to offset that risk, Toyota sold the car for a moderate price. In the US, we got a tax break (a deduction ) for one year. We got an unprecedented warranty and free service for 3 or 4 years. All of that just to get enough people to try is so that we would eventually tell the rest of the world that that it was a good car; dependable, economical and enjoyable.

Fast forward to Flashlights. How does one get people to buy and talk about a new flashlight? How do you manage to afford to import thousands of lights without knowing if there will be a market? I'll bet most (or maybe all) of the people complaining in this thread would not buy a flashlight unless others bought it first and gave their opinion. That must be true or they would not be so upset at the specter that someone else may have been influenced in their review.

So how do you sell the first 20 or 30 units of a new model of light? One often sells at an initial discount so the early adopters are not risking as much. A 30% discount is not that unusual. If you buy a new soup in the grocery store at 30% off, you don't add a disclaimer about being bribed before telling your spouse if you liked it, do you? I did not think so.

The next problem is how to generate word of mouth. Buzz. Hot Topics. How do you make sure that people know how good your product is? The solicited reviews are one way. There are also raffles, paid advertising, stealth campaigns (anyone remember Peak's intro on CPF?) and just plain spamming. I prefer the reviews over most other techniques.

Is it an insult to say that payola was offered or received? Why insult people you don't even know?

Daniel
 
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cave dave

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VA
I don't think the reviewers were "payed", rather I think they were "played".

I have read the non-disclosure agreement they were all held to for the discount and the early release. It also was a bit over the top.
 

paulr

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
10,832
I'm sorry folks for the trouble I caused. I promise this will not happen again.
(I know there are rules now in place to prevent this) I did not intend to be
a source of problems. Again, I'm sorry.

I also made a public apology here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2417745&postcount=149

:(

That's all well and good, but Fenix-Store is apparently now spamming CPF'ers by private message with a questionnaire about headlamps. Can you make that stop? Thanks.
 

Empath

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Nov 11, 2001
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Oregon
Gadget Lover, your point could have been argued effectively enough without accusing a member of baiting and insulting. The theme of the thread alone carries the basic assertion the member stated. That a member doesn't agree with you doesn't justify accusations of baiting.

It's discouraging to see members using accusations of baiting and trolling in place of sufficient argument. To see it added along with sufficient argument is even more so.

Please edit your post.


Regarding unsolicited questionnaires, blanketed by PM by a commercial source as a marketing tool, it's not permitted. If anyone is doing so, make sure you're PMing only those that you're sure will accept it as an established business relationship.
 
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paulr

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
10,832
I have bought stuff from fenix-store in the past, which means there is an established business relationship, but I don't think that is an excuse for spamming by PM. It's annoying even by email, but something of a normal practice if the person doesn't opt out. Doing it by PM is unusually aggressive and should absolutely stop.
 

NA8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
1,565
Very interesting topic. Perhaps some of these more aggressive marketing schemes could be executed in the Marketplace Dealer forums where the reviews could be presented as viral marketing in a positive sense. I think it's desirable to have this kind of thing, but it needs to be crystal clear what's going on.
 

geek4christ

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
339
Location
Oklahoma, USA
I'm sorry folks for the trouble I caused. I promise this will not happen again.
(I know there are rules now in place to prevent this) I did not intend to be
a source of problems. Again, I'm sorry.

I also made a public apology here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2417745&postcount=149

:(

Nicely done, 4sevens.

I honestly didn't mind all the threads, but only because I was excited about the TK10. I see what others are saying, though. I certainly wouldn't want to see so many review threads pop up like this for every new light that comes out. I envision that if all manufacturers/retailers did this, CPF would have a lower signal/noise ratio. Not good.

OTOH, the more reviews, the better. It helps me really get into the details of a light and figure out what's going to be a no-brainer purchase for me. Thanks to CPF reviews, I haven't bought a light I didn't like since joining (wish I would have known about CPF before I bought my Gerber Sonic :thumbsdow )

...So...many reviews, less threads will work out great for me :thumbsup:
 
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