TW Li-Ion batteries not a substitute for Pilas

[JimH]

I just got my "1166 1D M*G powered by 3x168S" flashlight from Fivemega. I promply slapped 3 TW17650's into the holder, put the holder back in the light, and tried to fire it up.

All I got was a dim blip of light. I tried double clicking the switch - 2 dim blips of light. Three clicks, same result. Getting pissed now. Several clicks as fast as I could manage - wa la, light.

This phenomenon has been documented when running an 1185 on Pila's, but never to this extreme. I replaced the TW 17650's with Pila 168S's. I hit the switch - the light turned on. More tries - same result, light turns on just like a regular flashlight (i.e. no double or multiple clicking of the switch).

I don't know if the protective circuitry in the TW batteries is clamped too tight, or if the batteries just can't handle the startup current pulse, but the TW batteries seem to have much more limitation in hotwire, and possibly other, mods than the Pilas.

You want to sell a cheaper mouse trap, you ought to make it at least as good.

 

[tvodrd]

Thanks for the wonderful (not!) news, Jim. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif I have 6 of them TW puppies charged and waiting for my Fivemega 1D. With as much tied up in batts as in the light, maybe we can find a slightly lower wattage lamp that will work?

Larry

 

[Lurveleven]

Thanks for the info Jim, this saved me from wasting my money on trying those batteries.

Sigbjoern

 

[Lurveleven]

[ QUOTE ]
tvodrd said:
Thanks for the wonderful (not!) news, Jim. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif I have 6 of them TW puppies charged and waiting for my Fivemega 1D. With as much tied up in batts as in the light, maybe we can find a slightly lower wattage lamp that will work?

Larry

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm soon getting some WA1306, at 11.1 V they should give 400 bulb lumens and use 1.2 A.

There are some potted WA1306 for sale here: B/S/T Link

Sigbjoern

 

[vontech]

Watch out for the polarity markings on the Fivemega 1D, however. On mine, if I inserted 168S's on the bottom of the adapter according to the markings, then lined up the tops according to the polarity markings on the top, I only got 4.17 volts. HOWEVER, following the polarity markings on the bottom of the adapter and inserting the batteries, then lining up the red marks on both top and bottom (ignoring the polarity marking on top), they worked fine, producing 12.48 volts. (I do not have 3 TW 168s's -- only two ...).

I'm assuming that my 1D M*g holder was simply mis-marked.

Just for jollies, try this method if you haven't already .... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just FYI...

Tom

 

[tvodrd]

(Hopefully I deleted my stupid post before anyone read it.)

Larry

 

[vhyper007]

Well guys,
I find myself in the same f****** boat. Eagerly awaiting to show the "fam" what 700 lumens looks like. It is not nearly as bright as the red glow emanating from my face when not one GD thing happens when I kick tires and light fires. Checked everything, proper volts going thru adapter, therefore all polarities correctly observed but nada.
Giess I will still have to buy Pilas

Giving TW benefit of doubt maybe they didnt know but that didnt make me feel any better earlier in the day.

ANY POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS. THIS IS OVER MY HEAD. I WAIT HUMBLY BUT WISER................................AGAIN. DAMN IT!!!!!!!!

vhyper

 

[JimH]

[ QUOTE ]
vhyper007 said:
ANY POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.


[/ QUOTE ]

Press the switch several times in rapid succession until the the lamp lights up. Do not press it hard enough to click to the on position. Press only as hard as you would for momentary on. When a bulb is cold, resistgance is lowest, and it draws the most amps. Once the filament is warmed up, resistance increases, and current decreases.

You have to manually warm up the filament by several rapid presses of the switch until the resistance increases enough to limit the current to what the TW batteries can handle.

 

[JimH]

Lurveleven,

Friendly tip - the correct way to put a long URL in a post is to use the URL button.

- Hightlight the URL you want to reference
- Hit CTRL-C to copy it to the clipboard
- Enter your text in the post up the point you want to reference the URL
- Scroll down to the "Instant UBB Code" section
- Click on "URL"
- You will be prompted for the URL - hit CTRL-v to paste in your URL
- Hit the Return button - you will be prompted for a label
- Enter some text identifying your URL such as "here", "see this", etc.
- Your text will appear in the post instead of the actual URL, but when people click on the text, it will act the same as if they had clicked on the URL.

Long URLs cause the page to become very wide so that you have to scroll back and forth to read the posts.

 

[PeterB]

Maybe a softstart would help?

Snoopy described resently a simple soluution with a MOSFET driven by a RC element.

Maglite Switch Modified for High Performance Bulbs

 

[chevrofreak]

Another reason the TW cells are no replacement for Pilas is that their diameters are the same as a Pila, BUT they have no outer wrapper that can safely be removed to make them fit in all lights. They will NOT fit Inova lights.

 

[andrewwynn]

I would definitely make sure you have the voltage you think you have... measure the current demand with a DMM and see what that turn on spike is.. to hold back a current spike all you need is an inductor.. so maybe you can put a coil inline with the bulb.. of course you need to have one that can handle the current demand, and i'd make sure it's looooow resistance coil so you don't have heating problems. coilcraft will send you a sample for free if you check the right checkboxes.

 

[JimH]

That's all fine and dandy, but when I buy a battery that's supposed to be a replacement for another brand of battery, I don't feel like I should have to make electronic mods to my flash light to get it to work.

Being electronically challenged, I'm your basic plug-and-play, with minor mods kind of guy. I can do minor soldering and minor drill and grinding, but I'm not up to adding electronic components to my light - and I don't feel I should have to.

 

[modamag]

Bring that light with the 3x TW batteries to the May 14th get together. I'ld like to use my new logger to see what kind of current spikes are we getting.

 

[PeterB]

[ QUOTE ]
andrewwynn said:
I would definitely make sure you have the voltage you think you have... measure the current demand with a DMM and see what that turn on spike is.. to hold back a current spike all you need is an inductor.. so maybe you can put a coil inline with the bulb.. of course you need to have one that can handle the current demand, and i'd make sure it's looooow resistance coil so you don't have heating problems. coilcraft will send you a sample for free if you check the right checkboxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't recommend using an simple inductor. The inductor will generate a high voltage if you open the switch, which could generate sparks and degrade the lifetime of the switch.

An inductor, shunted with a diode or resistor might do the job...

 

[tvodrd]

I received my Fivemega "1D" today and must report the same results as Jim with the TW cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif It does light-up, but it takes 2 to 3 tries.

Larry

 

[andrewwynn]

OOOHH.. yeah inductor... better put a cap in series with that if you want to avoid blowing something up, thanks for pointing that out Peter. My thoughts are that this solution may well work if you can coax these things to light up with a few tries... you are warming up the bulb with a few bursts of energy that are getting through the protection circuitry is what seems to be happening... i've read that the resistance goes way up when the bulb warms up... maybe there could be a simple solution of having a starting resistance like high power motors have.. putting in a series resistance for a moment to warm up the bulb before going to 'hi' beam... might be able to wing something clever with an inductor, a cap and a resistor that will short itself out automatically so you don't have to have a two-stage switch.

(the cap would be in parallel with the inductor.. which is in series with the bulb).. another clever possibility is a couple low RdsON FETS in parallel.. put them downline of the bulb and in series... and put the gate on the input voltage, but with a resistor bridge to ground (say 100kohm to the gate and 1Mohm to ground).. and put a cap in parallel with the 1Mohm.. that will turn on the FET slowly.. and two decent FETS in parallel will get you 1/40th of an ohm resistance so there will be negligible power dissipation to deal with (although there will be a little bit as it turns on). This should make a nice soft-start solution, just tweaking the values of the R and Cap 'til you get the turn on timing you want.

Thanks to Uncle Fester for pointing out that i wrote the change in resistance backwards.. duh it goes UP when it warms up or we wouldn't be having this dialog.

 

[BuddTX]

Sorry yall are having problems.

I am always interested to save a buck, but I ordered my Pilas before I knew about the TW clones.

Glad I ordered the Genuine Pila's.

Hope the problems get worked out, I would love a cheap alternative to Pila's!

 

[Lurveleven]

It will be interesting to see how Batterystation's protected 18500, 18650 and 17650 will compare. These will only be $10 a piece.

Sigbjoern

 

[picard]

Which Pila batteries fit Innova T5?

Which Pila batteries will fit in Innova T5 light? T5 is idendical to T4 but T5 runs CR123 batteries.