Unprotected 18650's in a single cell light.

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BIG45-70

Enlightened
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Aug 28, 2010
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I recently picked up some 3100Mah Panasonic's on eBay I believe they are unprotected. I'll be using them with a nailbender drop-in with low voltage protection which I have no concerns about, but I'll also be using them with a few malkoff m61's. The charger I'll be using is the new nitecore intelli charger.

Do I have any concerns using this setup as long as I pull the cells when there is a visible output drop with the malkoffs? Are their advantages in using unprotected cells?
 
Hi BIG. Your post has been hanging here a bit so I'll give you some info. Keep in mind though that I do not have either of your setups.

First, I would determine whether or not your cells are protected or not. This may, or may not give you some piece of mind. Just the same, I always recommend not relying on protection circuits, anyway. It's better for the cell if the discharge is stopped well short of when the protection circuit trips, if, it even trips. At low current levels it is possible to over discharge even protected cells, for example.

As for stopping discharge as soon as there is a noticeable drop in performance, this is a good idea. Better than that though, what I would do is check the rested voltage of cells occasionally during discharge in each of your applications. This will give you a better idea of where your cells stand as far as how discharged they are. Once you are aware of the results, you won't need to check so often, or maybe at all.

Keep in mind that the voltage you read when removing a cell from a light, is not the same as what the cell's voltage was when under load. It will always read higher. The 2.50 Volt minimum voltage for the Panasonic NNP cells is when under load, not after you remove the cell from the light.

To allow for this discrepancy, a good rule of thumb (although not "carved in stone") is that cells discharged at a high rate of discharge should read around 3.5-3.6 Volts when fully discharged and cells discharged at low rates of charge should read no less than about 3.00 Volts, when pulled from the light (and also should be charged as soon as possible, not left sitting around for days, or weeks). Again, this is the rested voltage of the cell after it has recovered voltage a bit after removing it from the light, not the minimum voltage when it was in use.

Obviously, cells that have been discharged at higher rates do not become as discharged as those that were discharged at lower rates, but the voltage when under load, was about the same. That's just how it works. Voltage drop under high current loads is more than at low current loads. This is also, as I mentioned earlier, where protection circuits can fail to stop the discharge soon enough. Unlike laptop protection circuitry, the protection circuits added to Li-Ion cells are not "tuned" to any specific application, they are a "catch all" type, so can fail to do the job, particularly in low current demand applications.

So anyway, stopping discharge when performance drops off is a good idea, but may not always work when discharging at low current rates. Do some experimenting, checking cell voltage at certain points during discharge, and you should get a better idea of where your cells stand in each application.

Also, the exact figures I mentioned are not necessarily exact, just a general guideline that I use, YMMV. And, as for specific lights/dropins and such, a lot depends on the specific LED and driver etc, so gauging cell discharge level by performance alone, may vary quite a bit.

Hope this helps.

Dave
 
the 3100 pannys that are protected that a few sellers are selling have an obvious strip down the side, the strip is the connector that sends the "protection" the other pole of the battery. If it had that strip which is brown (I assume copper conductor and kaptan type yellow insulator) it might help indicate if it was protected. The lenght of the cell would be at least 4mm longer than its stock spec length if it was protected.

some of the protection that was being applied on them was a higher amp versions of the protection (vrses the usual 2&4amp)

That is all i know from recentally looking at them, and reading the newer posts about them here.
 
I picked up a pair of NCR18650As from Orbtronics a few months back and run them in a ZL SC-600 and a Fenix PD-32. I try not to let them drop below 3.8v and then I charge them up on my Xtar WP2 II. No protection, but I'm the only guy fiddling with them and I check the voltages often.

Chris
 
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