Upgrading lumens...whats the point?

[vampire's echo]

I've read around the forums and how the new Cree bulbs are out for wolf eyes, etc. But i've also noticed that users note that the increase in brightness is not really noticeable after the drop in. Taking this into account, is there even a point in upgrading bulbs? It seems that after 100+ or so lumens, any increase in brightness is negligible.

 

[not2bright]

I'm not sure about the drop-in you are mentioned, but often with the Cree replacement you can get an increase in run time (close to double) at the same output.

The other option is an increase in output with runtime staying the same.

I'm guessing that there is a middle ground with some increase in both output and runtime.

It all depends on how the driver circuit is engineered.

 

[defusion]

it's not unnoticable, it's just that the higher up the lumens tree you go, the more increase in lumens you need to increase the brightness to your eyes.
from 50 to 100 lumens is quite noticable. it doubles the output.
but if you want the same increase to your eyes, you need to double up again, so go to 200 lumens. not increase by the same amount, which would be a total of 150 lumens.

 

[BB]

From my humble experiences... With light (and sound), you can identify a 2x change in levels--but usually that would require side by side testing (set light to xx lumen, then to 2*xx lumen). Seeing one light one night, and a 2x light the next night would not be a very noticeable difference.

(By the way, this also applies to larger lights--just like a 1-2 watt output change is noticeable--a 500 watt to 1,000 watt change is also just noticeable).

A 10x difference in output is a "night vs day" type change.

From my point of view, I would rather have 2x the runtime vs 2x the intensity in most conditions. That is why multiple level LED lights are so nice (multiple level single filament bulbs do not dim linearly--as they get cooler, the output drops dramatically--thereby not saving you much in the way of battery usage).

Also, especially at higher outputs, both the LED emitters require more than 2x the current for 2x the output and the batteries are able to output less total output energy at 2x the current levels...

For a good example of battery output vs current, this oldie but goodie CR123 battery comparison thread by SilverFox.

So, for me, upgrading lumens in an LED means upgrading runtime. In many cases, all I want is a 10 lumen or under light (with long runtimes) for knocking around in a dark space or reading something... A 100+ lumen light is just painful and distracting 80% of the time.

I think we have all gotten spoiled here... Not too long a go, a Mini-Mag 2AA flashlight was not a bad general consumer light with a few hours of gradually declining light. Now, a light 1/2 the size gives a nice beam for 65+ hours... Plus, just a twist of the hand the new LED light(s) can 15x brighter for almost 2 hours of constant white beam.

-Bill

 

[2xTrinity]

When people talk about difference in brightness being difficult to perceive, they usually refer to lighting up identical targets from the same distance. If the light you already have is sufficiently bright for the tasks you are doing, then aiming for the same brightness and extending runtime is a better solution. If you wished your light could illuminate a larger area, or some further away target (more throw) then you can only achieve that with more lumens (or different optics).

Also, differences in lumens are much easier to notice doing ceiling bounce tests, or when using a light for throw outdoors -- where the targets you are looking at aren't illuminated very brightly. When there is not a lot of light to begin with, small increases are easier to notice. If you compare brightness though by looking at the hotspots, your pupils will constrict more noticeably, making it more difficult to perceive a difference.

 

[kelmo]

Sometimes it's just plain COOL!!!

I have plenty of mid to high quality lights. But I finally suscumbed to the Cree hype and got a drop in module for my 6P. Did I need it? No. Is it cool? Yes!

Sometimes you have to listen to you inner flashaholic child and give in to their little nagging voice, "I want a really bright light. All the other CPFers have one..."

 

[savumaki]

More light from less power; hard to refuse.

 

[LEDninja]

My EDC upgrades have taken the following route.

Solitaire ~1.5 lumens
Dorcy AAA ~4 lumens
Nuwai TM-310H ~8lumens
L0P-SE (default medium) ~11 lumens (max ~30 lumens)

At each point I went nice but I wish it is a little brighter. Then I got my L0D-CE.

L0D-CE (default medium) ~17 lumens (max ~46 lumens)

I did not feel I need to upgrade any more. Then I got Electrolumans My Little Friends and some 10440 batteries.

L0D-CE/10440 (default medium) ~46 lumens (max ~120+ lumens)
My Little Friend 3xSSC-P4/4AAA ~300 lumens

These are too bright for indoor use but I like the extra brightness walking down a dark alley (the main roads have those flashaholic unfriendly things called streetlights). Interesting I find the L0D-CE/10440 with the brighter spill from the Cree more useful for walking than My Little Friend despite having less lumens.

 

[woodrow]

You post a very good question. A delima for myself is often which of two very similar lights should I take with me. My D-mini and LP M3 w/ turbohead both run on a AW 3.7v rcr123a. The D-mini is 30%+/- brighter than the M3, but the M3 will run over an hour, vs. 1/2 hour for the D-mini with the same battery.

I like the extra light the D-mini gives me when I leave my dark furniture store at night, but like the M3's extra runtime in case I need it. Lately I have just been bringing both. In other applications, the M3 is more than enough light for my uses.

I guess the answer lies in what you need to light up. A white living room does not need that many lumans and a 1 watt led...e2e works fine. The inside of a shipping warehouse has made me want more light than my old 10watt hid could put out.