Use lithium batteries where alkalines are used

[rydude07]

Hey guys!

I just got some energizer ultimate lithiums, and was wondering if I can use those in any flashlights or even electronic devices if it does not specifically state that that it can use lithiums but alkalines.

The ultimate lithium battereis that I got says that it is 1.5v.

Can I use these batteries in flashlights and other devices that say that alkalines can be used but does not specifically say that lithiums can be used?


thanks!

 

[Ksailork]

The short answer is NO, you cannot.

Some devices, such as my digital camera, cannot handle the heat that the Energizer lithiums produce in a high-discharge situation, such as a digital camera. [Which is poor design on their part as that is one area where primary L91 lithiums excel.] Petzl, on its website, identifies which of their headlamps can and cannot handle primary lithiums. Most of the flashlight brands that you see here on CPF, will specifically say if they can use primary lithiums to take the guesswork out of it.

I am sure others can delve into the physics of it better than I can. I will let them do so.

 

[1980z28camaro]

yes, it would be great for high drain flashlights

 

[rydude07]

Interesting. So if i lost the manual to say like a tv remote control or a flashlight and dont know if it can take lithium...dont use it?

Shouldnt the lithium battery on the box say that it can only be used in certain devices with like a warning?


My alkaline batteries and lithium batteries both say 1.5 volts though. Mine dont say L91 on it?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

the longer answer is "maybe". There are many things that are fine with them and some that are not. Devices that use the cell properties to limit power either voltage, current, or both can have problems as the lithiums have about 0.2-0.3v or so extra to them as with 4 cells that can add up to almost an extra battery in the mix. Better designed circuits just regulate the extra headroom and can use it at times to increase runtime dramatically while some that are starved for power can run a lot better but as Ksailork said some that are power starved are not able to handle the extra power they can supply and they will overpower it. It is like hooking a 6v car bulb up to a 9v transistor battery and it glows orange, then turn around and hook it up to a car battery and *FLASH* it instantpoofs it. If there is a regulator between the bulb and 12v cell it will glow at the regulated voltage brightness and be fine. If you had 8AAAs hooked to the 9v bulb it may run at the same brightness as they cannot put out enough current to supply more power than it can use.

 

[Flying Turtle]

My digital camera, for example, works better with lithiums. Where the lower voltage of a NiMH just doesn't cut it, the lithium batts give the juice needed for startup.

Geoff

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Interesting. So if i lost the manual to say like a tv remote control or a flashlight and dont know if it can take lithium...dont use it?

Shouldnt the lithium battery on the box say that it can only be used in certain devices with like a warning?


My alkaline batteries and lithium batteries both say 1.5 volts though. Mine dont say L91 on it?

If you use a tv remote often alkalines will give you just as much runtime as lithiums but you will need to check it for leaking on occasion, lithiums are almost a waste in remotes. Energizer wouldn't want you to not buy their battery. Until a class action lawsuit comes about to sue them for damaged devices that wins they probably will continue to not say anything as they would point to the manufacturer and pass the buck. As far as the L91 most people know it is energizers number for their lithium cells here even if it doesn't say it on every cell.
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

 

[DM51]

Wrong forum :scowl:

Moving to the Batteries section...

 

[core]

If you use a tv remote often alkalines will give you just as much runtime as lithiums but you will need to check it for leaking on occasion, lithiums are almost a waste in remotes.

Can you elaborate on this? Many of my remotes still have the cheapo OEM alkalines that came with them, but the few that have died I suspect died simply because of "old age". Therefore I would think that the greatly enhanced shelf life of lithiums would also greatly enhance the useful life of remote batteries.

Am I wrong?

 

[Ksailork]

Can you elaborate on this? Many of my remotes still have the cheapo OEM alkalines that came with them, but the few that have died I suspect died simply because of old age. Therefore I would think that the greatly enhanced shelf life of lithiums would also greatly enhance the useful life of remote batteries

It is probably not wise to compare the cheapo alkalines that come with your remotes to, say, a Duracell alkaline. My experience is that the original battery packaged with the remote rarely lasts a year. After I put in a fresh name brand alkaline (not just one from the drawer), I rarely have to replace them before I replace the electronic device due to obsolescence.

In a device like a remote, where the remote just "sips" the power from the battery you won't see a great difference in runtimes.

I also think lithiums are overkill for a TV remote but then, they are less prone to leakage. I use alkalines since my remote is rarely idle and if they leak, the battery compartment is very open/accessible, isolated from the electronics, and easy to clean.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Can you elaborate on this? Many of my remotes still have the cheapo OEM alkalines that came with them, but the few that have died I suspect died simply because of "old age". Therefore I would think that the greatly enhanced shelf life of lithiums would also greatly enhance the useful life of remote batteries.

Am I wrong?

As Ksa said, a decent brand of alkaline will last years and years in most normal factory equipped remotes. The specs on alkaline AAs put them at close to 3000mah at a 25ma current drain. this equates to more than 100 hours of use and if you use a remote 15 minutes a day that would mean over a year of use. I would guess most people don't put a total of 5 minutes a day use as perhaps it takes 2 seconds of use per button press 5 minutes of use would be 150 button presses. At 5 minutes use it would take 600 days or close to 2 years. Lithium primaries don't have any higher capacity than alkalines at this current level and if the remote uses less than 25 ma then it is possible they may have greater capacity than 3000mah. I have used rayovac, duracell, and energizer alkalines in remotes and AA and AAA have lasted at least 4-5 years on my most heavily used remotes and I have removed the batteries from my other remotes because they never seem to die, so as to reduce leakage risks. In expensive remotes that use more power with backlights I have been considering lithiums but so far my philips remote with backlight (that I use only when in bed) hasn't gone through even one set of 2AAA batteries in 13 months and still going strong. A word of advice to all, either write on the battery or put a note/sticker inside remotes that reminds you when you put new batteries in them. when the remote starts acting up you can look at the date and it may help you determine the batteries are just worn out vs a remote gone bad when it says your batteries are 3+ years old or so instead of 6 months old.

 

[rydude07]

Sorry about the wrong thread moderator.


So for flashlights like the itp A2, a3, and like the streamlight pro, it doesnt say that it can use lithium. I know some flashaholics use them, but would it be totally safe to use them since it does not say that it can?

All fenix and 4sevens (ld10,ld20, quark AA2) can use lithiums right? It is quite confusing because some 4sevens quark says that it can use a AA battery but does not specify whether lithium can be used.


Also, then what do people use lithiums for other than flashlights? Some digital cameras allow lithiums but what other devices?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Sorry about the wrong thread moderator.


So for flashlights like the itp A2, a3, and like the streamlight pro, it doesnt say that it can use lithium. I know some flashaholics use them, but would it be totally safe to use them since it does not say that it can?

All fenix and 4sevens (ld10,ld20, quark AA2) can use lithiums right? It is quite confusing because some 4sevens quark says that it can use a AA battery but does not specify whether lithium can be used.


Also, then what do people use lithiums for other than flashlights? Some digital cameras allow lithiums but what other devices?

a lot of flashlight designs were not made with lithiums in mind, this doesn't mean they won't work with them though. I would bet most 1 cell flashlights work with lithiums and a majority of 2 cell lights should work fine as they use boost circuits not depending on the cell chemistry to limit current. it is the 3 cell and more lights that could have issues unless they have a buck circuit in them to regulate the extra voltage and/or current there could be more power than expected to the emitters causing them to be driven hard and overheat perhaps. I would say many radios should be fine with lithiums and some portable cd players. My opinion is around 80% of the stuff made should be ok with lithium primaries but this leaves a chance of getting something that cannot safely use them at about 1 in 5 perhaps lower so you still need to be careful or something could get zapped.

 

[rydude07]

IC. So i guess it is a grey area other than fenix flashlights and others that specifically say lithium batteries.

So should I just stay away? Like for the nintendo wii controllers, xbox 360 controllers or for things that i have no way of finding out whether it allows lithium batteries (like the itp A2 or A3), I should just stick with alkalines or nimh? What about like things that are old that I can't find the manual to, and not knowing whether I can put a lithium in it like a 2aa mini maglight from years back etc.

Man this is getting more frustrating lol. I know that some use the itp a2 or a3 with lithiums, but is it totally safe since the box doesnt say so?

I dont want to have a 1/5 chance of something going terribly wrong.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

things that eat batteries go with duraloops and a smart charger. Things that run forever on alkalines stick with them to save money but make sure and check them every few months for leaking batteries. I would bet if you googled things like "wii controller lithium batteries" you would find out if it is safe to use them and find a forum where people talk about just that. Chances are if it is flashlight based you can read threads about it, search using google about it and find out if they are risky or safe to use. I would say about 90% of the lights talked about can use lithiums in them while some cheap budget lights costing less than $10 could have issues.

 

[rydude07]

Thanks for your help man!

Really seems that energizer should put a disclaimer. If it wasnt for CPF, i might be putting lithiums into everything that should be alkaline.


So for these can i use lithiums and be 100% safe?

1) fenix ld01 (the website says it is only alkaline and nimh for the R2 but the Q5 it says it is ok? why is that)

2) itp a2/a3

3)fenix ld20,10

4) quark AA2 (tactical and regular)

5)eagletac p20a2 or the p100a2

6) fenix e01

7) nitecore d10 sp or the d20 or defender infinity
:shrug:

 

[Lynx_Arc]

those should be fine with lithiums, typically on 1AAA/AA and 2AA/AAA lights the problem with lithiums would be overheating on metal based lights and you should be able to feel if they are getting excessively hot. most devices don't consider lithium as a power source when writing their documentation so don't be surprised if they don't mention it.. especially chinese based companies which may not have them as commonly as other countries have.

 

[vali]

If you use a pair of Energizer Lithiums in the LD20 you will lose the low levels. It seems the voltage is too high and the light are direct drive with lithiums.

 

[rydude07]

I wish there was a sticky that said which lights are 100% safe to be used with lithiums and like exceptions like the D20 where you can use it but lose the low mode.


So for the itp A2/a3 and all quarks, fenix ld series (ld01 says you can for the q5 but doesnt for the R2?), eagletac p series, and the streamlight stylus pro, it is totally safe?

I think a sticky or thread about it would be a good idea. Sorry that I am such a noob at this lol.


Oh btw, sorry if off topic but, i called logitech and lithiums are safe to use in the logitech anywhere mx mouse. lol