VW Bug Lights

[harro]

Hi all;
There was so much good advice with my Golf 5 low beam light issue, i thought i might try again for my sister's 2002 VW Beetle with projector lense low beam. She complains of not being able to see much at all out of built up areas on low beam. After a drive to see ( or not ) what they are like, i realized she was right, and they truly are attrocious on low. In fact, among motoring magazines in Australia, they run an unofficial award for dubious features of cars, and the Bug won ' The Golden Candle ' award some years ago for crap headlights.
Now, these projector lights actually run halogen globes, and it appears that maybe the halogen/projector combo is not ideal. As much as everyone ( myself included ) dislikes HID kits, i cant help but wonder if one would improve this situation. I was thinking something like a 4300k/5000k CANbus and Philips licence manafactured Korean globe kit with 35 watt ballasts may help a dim situation. Or does anyone have an alternative that i have'nt thought of ??
All the usual stuff like new globes, checking wiring, lux output on each side etc has been tried.
These are absolute human waste product lights, so i would be grateful for any ideas.
Many thanks;
Mike.

 

[rob3rto]

As far as I know, Philips don't make/license plug n play kits.

The first thing to do is get them professionally aligned so you are starting from a good base.

 

[-Virgil-]

As much as everyone ( myself included ) dislikes HID kits, i cant help but wonder if one would improve this situation.

No. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See here to remind yourself why "Well, wait, maybe in this headlamp they'd work well!" is wishful dreaming.

I was thinking something like a 4300k/5000k CANbus and Philips licence manafactured Korean globe kit

There is no such thing as a Philips (or Philips-licensed, or Philips-authorized) "HID kit".

These are absolute human waste product lights, so i would be grateful for any ideas

They're also 11 years old and quite possibly cooked internally (reflectors) and externally (lenses). It may well be time for new headlamp assemblies. Looks like VW and Bosch (AL) decided not to release the optional Xenons in Australia. They did in Japan, though -- another left-traffic country -- as a retrofit package. Bosch/AL part number 0 318 130 779. The manufacture of that kit was discontinued in 2008, but perhaps if you scrounge around you can find a Bosch warehouse with one left in stock.

 

[harro]

No. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See here to remind yourself why "Well, wait, maybe in this headlamp they'd work well!" is wishful dreaming.



There is no such thing as a Philips (or Philips-licensed, or Philips-authorized) "HID kit".



They're also 11 years old and quite possibly cooked internally (reflectors) and externally (lenses). It may well be time for new headlamp assemblies. Looks like VW and Bosch (AL) decided not to release the optional Xenons in Australia. They did in Japan, though -- another left-traffic country -- as a retrofit package. Bosch/AL part number 0 318 130 779. The manufacture of that kit was discontinued in 2008, but perhaps if you scrounge around you can find a Bosch warehouse with one left in stock.

Nuff' said!! After reading that article, i'm gonna leave well enough alone!! That is an exceedingly informative article, and fully explains why you shouldnt attempt such a conversion. Thx again Schienwerfermann.
Cheers;
Mike.

 

[NFT5]

There is no such thing as a Philips (or Philips-licensed, or Philips-authorized) "HID kit".

Interesting.

http://www.lighting.philips.com.au/v2/automotive/productrange.jsp?id=1012984#0

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Lovely clear cut off (better than with halogen)

Questionable modification aside, a sharp cutoff is not the same as a good one. It's often very important to have clear vision above and below the cutoff.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I assumed this Philips HID kit is a conversion for projector type headlamps, but it is a conversion for 9006, H4 h/l, etc. Would be great if someone had try this kit and tell us the impressions...

Whether for projector headlamps or reflector headlamps, HIDs cannot safely, legally, or effectively be used if that projector or reflector was not designed for an arc-discharge source. There is no need to try and no need for "impressions".

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Interesting.

And the SOA for philips.com.au is ns1.ext.philips.com, so it doesn't appear to be a lookalike site... Shame on Philips!

 

[-Virgil-]

Interesting.

http://www.lighting.philips.com.au/v2/automotive/productrange.jsp?id=1012984#0

Looking at the "product listing", none of those meet ADRs. Totally illegal.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

There is no such thing as a Philips (or Philips-licensed, or Philips-authorized) "HID kit".

Interesting.
(link removed)

Looking at the "product listing", none of those meet ADRs. Totally illegal.

I think what he found "interesting" was that this kit exists (or did exist at one time).

I was hoping that it was a fake Philips site, but checking DNS records for the Start of Authority shows that it's really theirs.

 

[-Virgil-]

I did some digging, too -- looks like this product comes from one of Philips' Asian sales divisions -- maybe Malaysia -- and was probably just lumped in on the Australian site given that Australia and New Zealand are in the "Asia-Pacific" marketing region. But even that doesn't fully explain this, because "HID kits" are illegal under Australian, New Zealand, and Malaysian law.

 

[NFT5]

I did some digging, too -- looks like this product comes from one of Philips' Asian sales divisions -- maybe Malaysia -- and was probably just lumped in on the Australian site given that Australia and New Zealand are in the "Asia-Pacific" marketing region. But even that doesn't fully explain this, because "HID kits" are illegal under Australian, New Zealand, and Malaysian law.

The product does appear on various Philips websites. I think we need to be realistic about Philips motives for selling these kits. The HID industry is very, very big and there are lots of dollars to be made. Philips are doing nothing illegal by selling these kits in Australia since our laws only prevent their use in vehicles used on the public road system. I could only imagine that, if pressed, they would probably answer with something like "they're intended for the mining industry and off road use".

Unlike the US where it is illegal to import, distribute and sell HID kits, such actions are not illegal here. I would suspect that is the same case in whichever countries Philips advertise these kits. Meanwhile, there is money to be made and I can understand Philips not wanting to miss out on the profits that are available from selling these products, especially since they can cash in on their name and reputation and price these kits well above, actually near double, the market rate.

Are they actually any better? From personal experience I don't know and I'm quite sure I'm not going to spend $200+ on a kit I can't use, to find out. Chances are, though, that they are in the upper end of the Chinese manufactured kit quality range. It is known that Philips do have manufacturing arrangements with a number of the bigger bulb and ballast manufacturers in China and Taiwan. I'd guess that these arrangements also include some quality standards. Word around the traps is that they're OK. I have customers with them and they are still available - retailed nationally by one of the major auto parts & accessories chains plus various other smaller retailers.

 

[harro]

Very interesting and some differing P O V's. After studying the link provided by Scheinwerfermann, it's clear why these dubious at worst and average at best, "kits" probably should be avoided for road use. Concensus seems to be that you make the most of what's already on the vehicle ( ie; hi-qual halogen replacement bulbs, clean lenses, correct aim etc ) to achieve the best possible output. As i'd stated in my other post, i changed the bulbs for Philips Extremevision 100%, and the improvement was visible on low. I'm going to do the same for the High pockets, then have the whole show professionally aimed ( at present,the garage door method and fine tuning on the road has been employed ).
It's amazing how many aftermarket kits have found their way into varying vehicles in this neck of the woods. They all seem to have one distinguishing feature, and that is that they are glary in the extreme to oncoming drivers. OEM HID's are nothing like it, and even correctly aimed halogen's are easier to look at than these " dubious, easy to install, safety improvements ".
I'll stick with my OEM halogens, and advise my sister along the same lines for her Bug.
Cheers;
Mike.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Odd I replied to this thread yesterday, but today there seems no trace of that reply?


Anyhow, all I said was I read the link too and very informative it was. And I don't particularly disagree with it.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

It's not surprising your opinion differs from the facts in that link. The human visual system is particularly adept at misleading itself.
Not getting flashed by other drivers is not an indication at all that the lights aren't producing excessive glare. I know that I'm loath to flash someone with excessively bright low beams because I'll just get dosed with their high beams after that.

I'm not saying you should do it, or that it's even a good idea. Just that my personal experience was very positive and it's something I'd consider on other vehicles.

I'm saying you should not do it, and that it's not a good idea. The facts are very clear that the results are not positive, and it's something that should be considered for NO vehicles.

 

[NFT5]

Odd I replied to this thread yesterday, but today there seems no trace of that reply?

Possibly because you could be seen to be encouraging something that is illegal? That if your experience was positive then someone else's could be too? They're a bit sensitive about that sort of thing here and the rules are rigidly enforced. A post like yours could bring a moderator running to slam a lock on the thread. I for one, hope that doesn't happen since I think that the current discussion could go further without crossing the boundaries and I'm interested in the opinions or contributions of others here who may have insights into the actions of one of the major players in the lighting industry.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I have another car (with halogens) that can cause people to flash you all the time if you don't set the adjustment button to lower the beam. So I think it does count for quite a bit tbh. my incan Maglite had a much better beam profile with an LED than it did with an incan bulb, despite using the same reflector. Based on these "facts" this shouldn't be possible, yet it is.

 

[dave_b]

Hi Chicken Drumstick,

This is what the mods are going to tell you, and they will probably be pretty abrupt about it so here goes.

"my incan Maglite had a much better beam profile with an LED than it did with an incan bulb, despite using the same reflector. Based on these "facts" this shouldn't be possible, yet it is."

Automotive headlights cannot be compared to flashlights. Auto lamps are required to form a complex beam pattern that creates a beam that is both decently wide and with enough throw that you can drive safely, without undue hotspots or holes, all under a cutoff that prevents you from glaring other drivers off the road (whether it is a distinct or more diffuse cutoff is moot). Never mind the durability and severe service requirements they must also conform to. They do this with a reflector that is precisely shaped to reflect light from a known shape of light source. Halogen bulbs and HID bulbs simply produce a (notably) different shape of light, so no matter how good it looks to your eyes, the beam pattern no longer complies with the original beam pattern design that the OEM's optical engineer designed. The chances that it makes a compliant beam are nonexistent. As Alaric Darconville states, your eyes simply cannot judge whether a beam is compliant. Only precise photometric tests can do this. The parabolic reflector in a maglight can probably adapt to different light sources easier, because the beam it produces isn't going to cause a safety hazard to other surrounding maglight users in the same way headlights are. Plus given that HID's form an arc light source, they are radically different to what a halogen reflector is designed to see. Please also note that a distinct cutoff doesn’t correlate to safe levels of glare. My brother's car has trash TYC lights and from in the car the cutoff is very sharp, but oncoming his car is impossible to look at. ( I admit this is a subjective statement.)

"Yet I have another car (with halogens) that can cause people to flash you all the time if you don't set the adjustment button to lower the beam. So I think it does count for quite a bit tbh."

This doesn't really say a lot, because we have no idea the state of this other car's headlamps. They could be pitted with use, which will tend to cause a lot of upwards glare. They could be improperly aimed. You could be carrying extra weight that wasn’t there when they were aimed, which would cause upwards glare. Ineffective/improperly aimed factory fogs tend to cause a lot of upwards glare. This is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Long story short, as NFT5 said, the moderators will close a thread for constant talk of illegal modifications, such as ANY HID kit in a halogen lamp. And this one has been good so far.

 

[-Virgil-]

Chicken drumstick, please mind: NFT5, Alaric Darconville, and Dave B are correct. Your posts are being edited or deleted because the lighting modifications/products you're recommending are illegal. Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating illegal activity, and that is that. Stop now.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Chicken drumstick, please mind: NFT5, Alaric Darconville, and Dave B are correct. Your posts are being edited or deleted because the lighting modifications/products you're recommending are illegal. Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating illegal activity, and that is that. Stop now.

I'm in the UK and the legality is a huge grey area concerning HIDs, but strictly claiming them as illegal is not an accurate description. The DVLA expresses opinions on what they think, but this does not make it legislation.


And BTW - I didn't "recommend" anything, I simply offered up an experience - or is that not allowed on CPF these days either?